What’s Putin’s Puppet hiding?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Grow up
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Smarten up
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[Got Stripers]

Trump doesn’t hide anything, his idiot personal lawyer Rudy made it clear what’s going on and someone had the balls to come forward putting their career at risk. I don’t know who is crazier Rudy or Trump, but they all ignore the law and norms, they will push the limit until Nancy grows a pair.
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[spence]

This story just keeps getting worse.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

This story just keeps getting worse.
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Story or fable?
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[Got Stripers]

Trump is the larger version of our own Fall River mayor, corruption in plain site, going to ignore law, ignore norms, ignore everything and everyone until someone has the balls to stop him. Most corrupt president of our lifetime, his legacy will not be the SD line, just wait for history to catch up to him.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Trump is the larger version of our own Fall River mayor, corruption in plain site, going to ignore law, ignore norms, ignore everything and everyone until someone has the balls to stop him. Most corrupt president of our lifetime, his legacy will not be the SD line, just wait for history to catch up to him.
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[Pete F.]

The most remarkable part of the Ukraine story is that it has Trump trying to collude with a foreign power to influence his next election shortly after the Special Counsel wrapped up its investigation of whether Trump colluded with a foreign power to influence the last one.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The most remarkable part of the Ukraine story is that it has Trump trying to collude with a foreign power to influence his next election shortly after the Special Counsel wrapped up its investigation of whether Trump colluded with a foreign power to influence the last one.
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This is silly. Biden and his son surely did nothing wrong. How would an investigation help Trump?

Now there have been "reports" of Biden and son misdoings in Ukraine. So, I guess, there should be investigations. My understanding, in the milieu of current political thought, if reports or accusations are made, investigations must follow.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

The most remarkable part of the Ukraine story is that it has Trump trying to collude with a foreign power to influence his next election shortly after the Special Counsel wrapped up its investigation of whether Trump colluded with a foreign power to influence the last one.
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they are going to lock you up Peto

[Pete F.]

I have no problem with another investigation into this.
I have a big problem with means and methods

7 April

Rudy Giuliani alleges on Fox News that former vice-president Joe Biden was involved while in office in irregular activity in Ukraine. The lawyer claims Biden pressed for the dismissal of a top Ukrainian prosecutor who had been leading a corruption investigation into a gas company on whose board Biden’s son Hunter had served.
Ukraine imbroglio confirms Giuliani's as Trump's most off-kilter advocate
25 April

Biden launches his presidential campaign.
1 May

The New York Times reports that Giuliani has been urging Ukraine to conduct a new investigation into the activities of Joe and Hunter Biden. “Giuliani called Mr Trump excitedly to brief him on his findings,” the paper says.
10 May

Giuliani cancels a trip to Ukraine. He had planned to travel to Kiev to put pressure on President-elect Volodymyr Zelensky to reopen investigations, in the hope of dredging up dirt on the Bidens. The lawyer described the aim of his aborted visit as “meddling in an investigation” and admitted “somebody could say it’s improper”.
20 May

Zelensky assumes the Ukrainian presidency.
25 July

Key telephone call takes place, between Trump and Zelensky. The call now appears to be at the centre of the whistleblower complaint filed the following month.
12 August

Whistleblower complaint is filed by a member of the intelligence community, raising an “urgent concern” relating to the president’s actions.
21 August

Giuliani reveals that in August he travelled to Madrid to meet a top Ukrainian official, Andriy Yermak. He “strongly urged” Yermak to reinvestigate the Bidens, among other matters. “Just investigate the darn things,” Giuliani says he told the official. The lawyer insists he is acting as a “private citizen”, though it later emerges the meeting was arranged with the help of Kurt Volker, US envoy to Ukraine.
9 September

Leading Democrats in Congress write to the White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, requesting all documents relating to any effort by Trump to put pressure on the Ukrainian government to help with his re-election bid. The letter accuses Trump and Giuliani of acting “outside legitimate law enforcement and diplomatic channels” to harm Biden’s campaign.
13 September

Adam Schiff, Democratic chair of the House intelligence committee, subpoenas the Trump administration, demanding that the whistleblower complaint be handed over. Refusal to do so by the director of national intelligence, a Trump appointee, sparks an constitutional tug-of-war.
18 September

The Washington Post reveals that the whistleblower complaint concerns Trump’s “communications with a foreign leader” and a “promise” that was regarded as “troubling”.
19 September

Giuliani is interviewed by Chris Cuomo on CNN and in a heated exchange at first denies that he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden. About 30 seconds later, he reverses himself. “Of course I did,” he says.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I have no problem with another investigation into this.
I have a big problem with means and methods

Good, let's investigate the Biden's activities in Ukraine. That, of course, would involve the Ukraine legal apparatus.

Do you have a problem with this story in Redstate:

What do I win?
Earlier this morning, I wrote a piece predicting that this story about Trump and Ukraine, supposedly involving a quid pro quo and an investigation request into Joe Biden, would blow up. The centerpiece of this was Biden being on tape bragging that he threatened to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees if Ukraine didn’t fire a prosecutor. That prosecutor just happened to be going after his son’s company. Just a coincidence, I’m assured.

Somehow though, this became a Trump scandal because a supposed “whistle-blower” claimed that the President had pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden’s very apparent corruption. I know, it makes no sense, but that’s how it works in the age of orange man bad. Somehow being on tape extorting a country wasn’t a big deal, but Trump wanting an investigation into it by our ally was impeachable. The media immediately went into leak and supposition mode, claiming that Trump had threatened the new Ukrainian President by withholding of $250 million in military aid they desperately needed.
This was it we were told. It was the scandal that would finally bring Trump down. And then, like always happens, more information started to trickle out that countered the hysteria.

Per The Wall Street Journal:
President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden ’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter.
“He told him that he should work with [Mr. Giuliani] on Biden, and that people in Washington wanted to know” whether allegations were true or not, one of the people said. Mr. Trump didn’t mention a provision of foreign aid to Ukraine on the call, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid-pro-quo for his cooperation on an investigation…
And there it is. There was no quid-pro-quo. He did not threaten to withhold military aid. He simply asked several times on a single phone call for them to look into it. He never even called back to press the issue further. None of the nonsensical gnashing of teeth we heard all day about this supposedly being an impeachment bombshell is true. A President asked an ally to investigate corruption that Biden himself admitted to on tape.
Some still can’t let this go though. We have certain conservatives of the anti-Trump bent asserting that the President didn’t actually have to say the words to be asking for a quid-pro-quo. Actually, yes, yes he does have to say the words. Especially when we know the military aid went through anyway despite no investigation being opened by Ukraine. The idea that we are now going to go after Trump based on suppositions of what Ukraine should have deemed from a perfectly legal request is asinine.
Look, I realize some had a lot invested in this, but how many times must they learn this lesson? How hard is it to wait 24 hours and see what else comes out? If a story fits a partisan narrative too perfectly, it’s probably not true or lacking context.
The other thing I’m hearing is that even if this wasn’t illegal or impeachable, it was still wrong because he asked a foreign leader to help him in a way that would benefit him politically. Frankly, I could not care less. These are the new rules. In 2016, the Obama administration went after the Trump campaign based on what they claimed were legitimate suspicions. We have Biden on tape. I’d say that’s a legitimate suspicion. Further, the DNC used Ukraine to get dirt on Paul Manafort. The Hillary campaign hired a foreign spy to build a dossier of opposition research on Trump. So spare me the moral lectures on using foreign sources.
This is politics, not religion and the only way you gather information on corruption by opponents in foreign countries is by using foreign sources. Democrats, the media, and some anti-Trump Republicans do not get to change the rules all the sudden when they don’t benefit them anymore. The precedent was set in 2016 and they will be made to live by it.
Meanwhile, the scramble is on to try to salvage what little is left of this story exploding in their faces. We’ll get all the usual excuses and claims that even though Trump didn’t do it, he’s still bad. The Washington Post will push out a dozen editorials all saying the same thing. The song and dance never changes. For all practical purposes though, this story is dead and done as far as Trump goes.
Biden’s involvement on the other hand? That story will only grow.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Biden being on tape bragging that he threatened to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees if Ukraine didn’t fire a prosecutor. That prosecutor just happened to be going after his son’s company. Just a coincidence,

.

geeze...I wonder why the dummycraps aren't calling for an investigation of this?

[Pete F.]

Here’s the problem with it
The viral image said that when Hunter Biden was serving as "a director to Ukraine’s largest private gas producer," his father "threatened to withhold $1 BILLION in U.S. aid to Ukraine if they didn’t fire a prosecutor looking into" the gas company.

The image gets individual pieces of this assertion right -- Hunter Biden was a director of the company, and Joe Biden did leverage U.S. aid to fire a prosecutor. But it overreaches by assuming that Joe Biden acted to protect the company his son was affiliated with. In reality, there was widespread agreement in the West that the existing prosecutor had to go, and it’s not clear that the company would have benefited from his ouster anyway, given evidence that its cases had long been dormant.

That said, experts criticize the Bidens for their arrangement, saying it could have been a significant conflict of interest.

Now look at Trump and follow the Kushner financing of his 666 property.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here’s the problem with it
The viral image said that when Hunter Biden was serving as "a director to Ukraine’s largest private gas producer," his father "threatened to withhold $1 BILLION in U.S. aid to Ukraine if they didn’t fire a prosecutor looking into" the gas company.

The image gets individual pieces of this assertion right -- Hunter Biden was a director of the company, and Joe Biden did leverage U.S. aid to fire a prosecutor. But it overreaches by assuming that Joe Biden acted to protect the company his son was affiliated with. In reality, there was widespread agreement in the West that the existing prosecutor had to go, and it’s not clear that the company would have benefited from his ouster anyway, given evidence that its cases had long been dormant.

That said, experts criticize the Bidens for their arrangement, saying it could have been a significant conflict of interest.

Now look at Trump and follow the Kushner financing of his 666 property.
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How about, NOW, we stop all these politically driven "investigations" and get on with actually solving the real problems our Republic has. Its life is hanging on by the threads of its tattered flag and we're wondering if it wouldn't be better to become a socialist "Democracy."

But, what the hell, who cares. I mean the world will end in twelve years if we don't stop eating hamburgers. The world would be better if we all just dissolved the borders that divide us, became an open planet where everyone has free healthcare, free just about everything actually . . . and who wouldn't abandon their present awful religions and authoritarian governments and join We are the People of the World?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

How about, NOW, we stop all these politically driven "investigations" and get on with actually solving the real problems our Republic has.

I'm not sure how the Ukraine issue Trump has hanging over his head can be considered a "politically driven investigation."

A whistle-blower did their job. The Inspector General did their job. Now it's time for Congress to do their job and lookie we have another cover up. If anyone is being political here it's the Administration.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I'm not sure

I don't blame you. How can you be sure if all the facts are not known?

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I don't blame you. How can you be sure if all the facts are not known?

Sounds like a good reason to release the whistle blower report to Congress so they can provide oversight, just like a healthy government is intended to perform.

[Pete F.]

As expected, liberals spent most of the weekend screaming “IMPEACH!” over news that President Donald Trump had again done something that is likely an impeachable offense.

This time around it involves a phone call with the incoming Ukranian president, a whistleblower report regarding that phone call that a Trump appointee found to be of “urgent concern” and a blatant attempt by the president of the United States to get a foreign country to interfere in the 2020 election.

Will these libs ever just give it a rest?

Because he’s super good at doing crimes, Trump and his attorney, Rudy Giuliani, spent the weekend effectively acknowledging that they did, in fact, try to get a foreign power to launch an investigation into widely debunked allegations against Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.

That’s just good presidenting right there: You know there’s a debunked scandal against your potential opponent. You know facts are stupid. So you lean on a foreign country to reincarnate a dead scandal and then let that zombie scandal eat what’s left of your supporters’ brains.

What president wouldn’t do that, aside from all presidents who came before Trump?

To make this easy for the weak-minded lefties, I’m going to detail five iron-clad reasons Trump should not be impeached for committing — and admitting to committing — an impeachable offense.

The story behind Joe Biden’s son, Ukraine and Trump’s claims »
1) Trump is pulling a reverse-Nixon, and you can’t impeach a president who pulls a reverse-Nixon.

In 1973, President Richard Nixon famously denied involvement in the Watergate cover-up by saying, “I am not a crook!” Articles of impeachment would’ve been filed against Nixon had he remained in office.

But Trump’s reverse-Nixon has him effectively saying, “I am a crook!”

On Sunday, in perfectly normal and easy-to-understand English, the president spoke about the call in which he reportedly pressured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to relaunch a closed investigation into Biden: “The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, was largely corruption, all of the corruption taking place, was largely the fact that we don’t want our people, like Vice President Biden and his son, creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine.”

So there it is. Did the president of the United States ask the president of a foreign country that was eagerly awaiting $250 million in U.S. aid to target a political opponent? Yes. Is that a clear attempt by Trump to use the power of his office to benefit himself and put self-interest above the interest of the nation? Heck yeah! Is the administration breaking the law and engaging in a cover-up by keeping the whistleblower report relating to this matter from congressional oversight committees? Yeppers.

But because Trump up and admitted it all — successfully pulling off the never-before-achieved reverse-Nixon — there’s no way Congress can impeach. Look it up, it’s in the Constitution. Probably.

2) Trump is having fun committing impeachable offenses, and it would be mean to stop him now.

On Sunday, New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman tweeted about the Ukraine scandal: “The president, per people close to him, is enjoying all this as it plays out.”

Clearly, Trump gets a real kick out of “triggering the libs” by mowing down the fundamental standards of our democracy and “faithfully executing the Office of President of the United States” only in the literal, murdering it sense.

Don’t take that away from him. Maybe he’s the self-proclaimed most successful president ever because he gets to commit impeachable offenses without consequence. Everyone deserves some joy in life.

3) You can’t impeach Trump for doing bad things because other people may also have done bad things, possibly.

The minute you bring up any alleged misdeed by Donald Trump, his supporters scream, “OH YEAH, WELL WHAT ABOUT THAT TIME (INSERT NAME OF EVIL LIBERAL) DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING?!?”

They will have no factual basis for their argument, but that doesn’t matter because they say it forcefully and refuse to admit they’re wrong. That, as any first-year law student will tell you, makes it true.

Biden: ‘Trump deserves to be investigated’ over Ukraine call »
For example, if I murder someone, I can just make up a story about how another person murdered someone and didn’t get charged, and that would insulate me from prosecution.

So did Trump violate his oath of office? Yes. But did Hillary Clinton violate her oath of office when she was president by allowing aliens to lure rural Americans to untoward sex parties in the basement of a pizza parlor? Absolutely.

Game. Set. Match.

4) Impeaching Trump would damage the Democrats’ carefully honed “We’re too afraid to impeach Trump” brand.

Congressional Democrats have spent the past three years not flexing their political muscles and pretending Trump is a normal political figure who can be contained by silly things like “rules” and “laws” and “basic common decency.”

Their inaction has emboldened Trump to think he can just get on the phone with a foreign leader and ask him to dig up dirt on a political opponent. Why would Democrats want to undo all the non-good they’ve done by suddenly cracking down on a lawless president? Totally off-brand.

5) Impeachment will rile up Trump’s base and divide the country, two things that are definitely not already happening.

If Democrats try to impeach President Trump, his supporters — known for their calm demeanor and openness to hearing both sides — might get angry. That would be terrible for Democrats’ chances of winning over people who think Trump — who according to the Washington Post’s fact-checker has told more than 12,000 false or misleading claims in less than 1,000 days — is a great truth-teller.

It also might divide the country by exposing the extent of Trump’s corruption and giving the truth a chance to win out.

Which would be terrible. For Donald Trump.

rhuppke@chicagotribune.com

[Sea Dangles]

Good job
Another gotcha!
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[Pete F.]

And you think this con man is the Chosen One.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

And you think this con man is the Chosen One.

Since you're not quoting a specific post with yours, not sure if you're referring to me. If you are, I don't know what you mean by "the Chosen One." But it does appear, if you're referring to Trump, that you've chosen him as an object of ceaseless and endless sorts of denigration, slander, belittlement, and thoroughly mean spirited attacks.

As for me, I did vote for him. So that was a choice. And he was the one chosen by me at the ballot box. But I certainly don't view him as a capitalized "Chosen One." He's just a guy, not a Messiah.

You're a Strange Fellow when you attribute thoughts to those who never expressed them--a sort of oracle, mentalist, clairvoyant, but who's powers are too weak to come up with the right vision.

[Sea Dangles]

He just has TDS.
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[Pete F.]

And when the whistleblower turns out to be Dan Coats or Sue Gordon, will you continue to claim BS.
The Toady Lindsey Graham thinks the whistleblower should be prosecuted, for doing something within the law.
If Trumplicans want to end meaningless investigations, they could have started years ago with the endless Clinton ones that Kavanaugh was rewarded for.
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[Sea Dangles]

Thank you for conceding it is a meaningless investigation. At least you validate it as two wrongs trying to make a right.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thank you for conceding it is a meaningless investigation. At least you validate it as two wrongs trying to make a right.
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Inspector General refers a whistleblower complaint as urgent and it’s meaningless?

Who has TDS again?
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Inspector General refers a whistleblower complaint as urgent and it’s meaningless?

Who has TDS again?
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Funny that the person who needed a safe space immediately following the election would dare ask this question. I hope that clarified your misunderstanding.
Oh,and PeteF is the one who referred to the investigation as meaningless.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Funny that the person who needed a safe space immediately following the election would dare ask this question. I hope that clarified your misunderstanding.
Oh,and PeteF is the one who referred to the investigation as meaningless.
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I think he was being a little bit sarcastic. As for safe spaces you keep bringing this up but I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

I think he was being a little bit sarcastic. As for safe spaces you keep bringing this up but I have no idea what you're talking about.

Hyperbole Jeff?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Thank you for conceding it is a meaningless investigation. At least you validate it as two wrongs trying to make a right.
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Just bear in mind that 49 Republicans in the house and 8 in the Senate lost their seats after spending a year defending Nixon's corruption.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Just bear in mind that 49 Republicans in the house and 8 in the Senate lost their seats after spending a year defending Nixon's corruption.
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Thank you for exposing that information Pete. You are truly one of God’s soldiers.
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