Mccain..

[spence]

And just to be sure, after you've read the wacky PNAC position on how American might is "good" for the rest of the world, here's what happened to it's sponsors after Bush took office!

-spence

[buckman]

I don't believe I quoted you. Why don't you make a long list of Obama's qualifications and enlighten us all. Or tell me something he truly stands for. I have an open mind, please teach me so I may follow too.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

I don't believe I quoted you. Why don't you make a long list of Obama's qualifications and enlighten us all. Or tell me something he truly stands for. I have an open mind, please teach me so I may follow too.

I have thought much about Obama and this is what I come up with. In general, Obama truely stands for one main ideal. The well being of the masses of this country. The people who make up about 80% of this country. Mccain will tell you that you can have your guns.. McCain will tell you that your god is his god.. McCain will tell you that he is looking out for you, but in the end, when you look at how most republicns operate, they are really looking out for the top 1% of this country. Did you know that 1% of our population ownes 40% of the wealth in this country? In the past few years, more and more tax burdon has been shifted from this 1% and put on your shoulders and your kids shoulders. While you and I focus on working our butts off to make a hundered or 2 hundered grand a year, that 1% saves a hundred grand every month on the recent tax cuts. What the normal person earns in a year is chump change. The thing is this- What one needs to pay attention to is what course this country is going down.. Bush and McCain are obsessed with global issues and nation building.. Obama has his own nation to re-build. Ours.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I have thought much about Obama and this is what I come up with. In general, Obama truely stands for one main ideal. The well being of the masses of this country. The people who make up about 80% of this country. Mccain will tell you that you can have your guns.. McCain will tell you that your god is his god.. McCain will tell you that he is looking out for you, but in the end, when you look at how most republicns operate, they are really looking out for the top 1% of this country. Did you know that 1% of our population ownes 40% of the wealth in this country? In the past few years, more and more tax burdon has been shifted from this 1% and put on your shoulders and your kids shoulders. While you and I focus on working our butts off to make a hundered or 2 hundered grand a year, that 1% saves a hundred grand every month on the recent tax cuts. What the normal person earns in a year is chump change. The thing is this- What one needs to pay attention to is what course this country is going down.. Bush and McCain are obsessed with global issues and nation building.. Obama has his own nation to re-build. Ours.

However the top 10% pay 90% of the taxes. Why should one person have to pay for the 9 layabouts that don't want to put in the effort. Work hard and strife to be that top 10% don't just complain about it. I am not even close to the upper bracket but I don't begrudge them for what they have. Why don't you swap your tax bill with someone who is "rich"

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I have thought much about Obama and this is what I come up with. In general, Obama truely stands for one main ideal. The well being of the masses of this country. The people who make up about 80% of this country. Mccain will tell you that you can have your guns.. McCain will tell you that your god is his god.. McCain will tell you that he is looking out for you, but in the end, when you look at how most republicns operate, they are really looking out for the top 1% of this country. Did you know that 1% of our population ownes 40% of the wealth in this country? In the past few years, more and more tax burdon has been shifted from this 1% and put on your shoulders and your kids shoulders. While you and I focus on working our butts off to make a hundered or 2 hundered grand a year, that 1% saves a hundred grand every month on the recent tax cuts. What the normal person earns in a year is chump change. The thing is this- What one needs to pay attention to is what course this country is going down.. Bush and McCain are obsessed with global issues and nation building.. Obama has his own nation to re-build. Ours.

Here we get to the crux of where I disagree Nebe with you and Obama. There is major disconnect on the wealth of this country. The days of old money and privledge are LONG gone. There are very few living off the family trust fund. And those that do, good for them, their families earned it. Obama has defined the wealthy as people making over 250k. Do you think the people that make say 250k to 1 million a year have it easy? They have to work and show results and have loads more pressure than most. I worked with people making big $ for most of my career. I've seen the sacrifices they make and the cost they pay. Yet Obama says, lets tax these people more! Well, these people have more expensive houses, they pay MORE property taxes, they have more expensive cars, they pay MORE property taxes. The more $ they make, the more income taxes they pay. The Obama plan is that teh people who work hard AND SUCCEED, must carry the burdern of those that don't. This country was built on hard work. The government should provide the opportunity to succeed, but not penalize those that do.
I wish I could find the exact quote, but he ended a speech by saying " We need to focus on healing and helping Americans"
I dont need healing, I don't need helping, and quite frankly its not the governments job to be sticking its nose in my business.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Here we get to the crux of where I disagree Nebe with you and Obama. There is major disconnect on the wealth of this country. The days of old money and privledge are LONG gone. There are very few living off the family trust fund. And those that do, good for them, their families earned it. Obama has defined the wealthy as people making over 250k. Do you think the people that make say 250k to 1 million a year have it easy? They have to work and show results and have loads more pressure than most. I worked with people making big $ for most of my career. I've seen the sacrifices they make and the cost they pay. Yet Obama says, lets tax these people more! Well, these people have more expensive houses, they pay MORE property taxes, they have more expensive cars, they pay MORE property taxes. The more $ they make, the more income taxes they pay. The Obama plan is that teh people who work hard AND SUCCEED, must carry the burdern of those that don't. This country was built on hard work. The government should provide the opportunity to succeed, but not penalize those that do.
I wish I could find the exact quote, but he ended a speech by saying " We need to focus on healing and helping Americans"
I dont need healing, I don't need helping, and quite frankly its not the governments job to be sticking its nose in my business.

you prove good points and i am not disagreeing with you, but the problem with capatilism is the rich get richer as they reap the profits from growth, and the poor get poorer as they have to pay more to fuel those profits. I think Obabma is concerned with that aspect. I really dont know to be honest, but it is an issue that needs attending and I dont see McCain looking out for the little guy.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

you prove good points and i am not disagreeing with you, but the problem with capatilism is the rich get richer as they reap the profits from growth, and the poor get poorer as they have to pay more to fuel those profits. I think Obabma is concerned with that aspect. I really dont know to be honest, but it is an issue that needs attending and I dont see McCain looking out for the little guy.

Should he? Not trying to be a jerk, but we have
- free education
- free libraries
- many programs to help fund college tuition

I think the "little guy" has all the opportunity to make it on his own, it just takes hard work. Some people need help and I believe we should help them. But in my opinion most of today's rich got there by working hard, taking risks, and sacrificing. I think we all have equal opportunity, black white, gay, straight, you name it.

For thousands of years there were political systems that took care of the "little guy" - tyrany, feudal system, etc. The fundamentals that founded this county were ideals that man can govern himself.

[buckman]

I'll have to admit I had a little falling out with the church myself being Catholic but he never complained or left untill it started to hurt his poles. That's why I say he has no values.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by buckman

I'll have to admit I had a little falling out with the church myself being Catholic but he never complained or left untill it started to hurt his poles. That's why I say he has no values.

Maybe he had family who went there? Friends that went there?
Haven't you ever been in the situation of "well... he still goes, eh, i'll go anyhow..."?

He didn't abandon the church until the pastor refused to apologize for what he said.

[Nebe]

I wouldnt be so quick to judge him over the church thing. Just because you do not agree 100% With your preist/reverand/rabi, does not mean that you reflect the same values, nor does it reflect that you have to find a new church. So he didnt agree with the guy and he stayed... so what. So he left because the media pounced on this as one of his weaknesses.. so what. I would have done the same thing. The social aspects of church sometimes out weigh the religious aspects. I would wager to guess that every affluent black person in his town attended that church. Sometimes sheep are slow to leave the flock, unless wolves are hopping the fence.

[buckman]

Thanks Nebe, I did not know he had done so much. " he gave the most important speech on religion in the last 40 years" HOLy SH@@t how did I miss it. And he stopped the spread of those infamous "weapons of mass destruction". I think he is awsome

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

Thanks Nebe, I did not know he had done so much. " he gave the most important speech on religion in the last 40 years" HOLy SH@@t how did I miss it. And he stopped the spread of those infamous "weapons of mass destruction". I think he is awsome

Considering the republicans coined the term WMD and then fabricated evidence to support the term, Id say they are even dont you think

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Considering the republicans coined the term WMD and then fabricated evidence to support the term, Id say they are even dont you think

Yes, I do.

[Nebe]

Unquestionably it was the best speech on religion in 40 years.

did you listen to it?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1209568851

[buckman]

No, I just took his word for it. It said it on his website so thats good enough for us, right? baa baa

[likwid]

Originally Posted by buckman

No, I just took his word for it. It said it on his website so thats good enough for us, right? baa baa

Much like "mission accomplished"?

[buckman]

Man, we can't get away from that can we. The goal of the original mission was accomplished, we just forgot the next step.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by buckman

Man, we can't get away from that can we. The goal of the original mission was accomplished, we just forgot the next step.

Oh you mean the mission they apologized for? Yeeeahhhhh

[buckman]

Originally Posted by likwid

Oh you mean the mission they apologized for? Yeeeahhhhh

Please tell me we didn't apologize for our mistakes. Say it ain't so.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Man, we can't get away from that can we. The goal of the original mission was accomplished, we just forgot the next step.

Actually, no. The goal of the original mission was to rid Iraq of WMD, rid the area of Western facing terrorisim and spread Democracy throughout the Middle East.

The "next step" as you say was a means to that end, and one that has proved to be a strategic blunder.

-spence

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by buckman

Man, we can't get away from that can we. The goal of the original mission was accomplished, we just forgot the next step.

Forgot the next step

Your joking right?

[buckman]

Originally Posted by EarnedStripes44

Forgot the next step

Your joking right?

Yes

[Nebe]

we apologize for other's mistakes. then we kill them.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

we apologize for other's mistakes. then we kill them.

What?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by buckman

What?

evil doers. you know...we kill them.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

evil doers. you know...we kill them.

No, it's not their fault. We made them evil. They are the victems here. I feel bad for them. I am sure if we all become hatefull Muslums we can all live in peace.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

No, it's not their fault. We made them evil. They are the victems here. I feel bad for them. I am sure if we all become hatefull Muslums we can all live in peace.

Hence the problem, the blending of evil doers with hateful Muslims...or put another way...the blending of political and religious extremism...or put another way...the blending of an entire spectrum of issues into...

Us against them.

Only 6 words total just to make it easy to swallow. I sure wish the world were this simple.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Nebe

we apologize for other's mistakes. then we kill them.

I thought it was plausible deniability for 30 years then "oh yeah, that, uh.... right.... JUST KIDDING LOLZ!"

[buckman]

The media has been quite for awhile now. Things are doing much better over there.If you have anyone close to you, that is over there, they will tell you the same thing. History will prove we did the right thing. Then you Dems will take credit for it somehow.

[likwid]

First page of his speech included 11 references to things Americans are afraid of.

Yeah, we're sick of hearing it over and over again.