President Biden says that 3,500,000,000,000 equals 0.

[Pete F.]

Here is the problem: at least 85% of the problem we have in inner-city, high-poverty urban schools has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the quality of education, the qualifications of the teachers, or classroom management skills. Nearly ALL of the problems stem from two things: a total lack of effective consequences that the kids find worth avoiding, and laws that keep incorrigible kids in the classroom. PERIOD—that’s it. If we took care of both of these problems, then the VAST majority of our “failing schools” problem would cease to exist.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Here is the problem: at least 85% of the problem we have in inner-city, high-poverty urban schools has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the quality of education, the qualifications of the teachers, or classroom management skills. Nearly ALL of the problems stem from two things: a total lack of effective consequences that the kids find worth avoiding, and laws that keep incorrigible kids in the classroom. PERIOD—that’s it. If we took care of both of these problems, then the VAST majority of our “failing schools” problem would cease to exist.
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fine, i agree with much of that. although i’d say the single biggest problem is crappy parenting ( which causes the behavior you mentioned).

you tell me, which political
side would tend to go along with your proposal, and which would fight it. the liberals run the cities, and they run the state of CT, they could fix that today if they wanted.

but my kids are now in private school because of one reason - the public schools are poorly run. unions often implement education policies that are completely at odds with what’s best for kids, and you don’t have union interference in private schools. one reason why they’re better.

Pete, when i taught in an economically challenged suburb of new haven, we had problems with fights between classes. so the principal asked all the teachers to use the 5 minute break between periods to look in the hallways to keep an eye out for trouble. A reasonable request, right?

That same day, the union told
us to absolutely refuse to do that, because that 5 minutes was a contractually negotiated “break”, and that if the school
wanted us to “work” during those 5 minutes, they’d have to pay us first.

That is one thing eroding the quality of education that you left out. The
unions are awful.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

fine, i agree with much of that. although i’d say the single biggest problem is crappy parenting ( which causes the behavior you mentioned).

you tell me, which political
side would tend to go along with your proposal, and which would fight it. the liberals run the cities, and they run the state of CT, they could fix that today if they wanted.

but my kids are now in private school because of one reason - the public schools are poorly run. unions often implement education policies that are completely at odds with what’s best for kids, and you don’t have union interference in private schools. one reason why they’re better.

Pete, when i taught in an economically challenged suburb of new haven, we had problems with fights between classes. so the principal asked all the teachers to use the 5 minute break between periods to look in the hallways to keep an eye out for trouble. A reasonable request, right?

That same day, the union told
us to absolutely refuse to do that, because that 5 minutes was a contractually negotiated “break”, and that if the school
wanted us to “work” during those 5 minutes, they’d have to pay us first.

That is one thing eroding the quality of education that you left out. The
unions are awful.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction.

Union shop, you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work.

That’s the difference between manager and master.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction.

Union shop, you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work.

That’s the difference between manager and master.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

no, the difference3 is between non union ( hold me accountable for what I do), and union (give me a raise and benefits regardless of whether I work hard or slack.

Pete, I have worked in an office and managed a team of as many as 8 actuaries. I was good at it, but now with kids I want to be done for the day at 5:00 every day.

Unlike you, I also know how to discuss things without getting ignored from people as rational as Bryan and not get banned from starting threads. I've never believed that the total measure of a man is how high he is on the company org chart. You obviously feel differently. That mindset shows in the angry, pathetic, warped nature of your posts. And you inability to ever admit that anyone to the right of Pol Pot has ever been right about anything on this forum.

I'm going to retire with a nest egg that will allow my wife and I to live on the interest, and leave every cent of principal for our kids. That's my goal. Having done what we need to do to achieve that, why would I want to work any longer hours than I have to? It's a flaw to take my kids off the school bus? id rather play catch with my kids until dark than work. Id rather coach little league than miss half the games. Read into that whatever you want.

Shock you're a union guy. We're all shocked.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction.

Union shop, you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work.

That’s the difference between manager and master.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

no, the difference3 is between non union ( hold me accountable for what I do), and union (give me a raise and benefits regardless of whether I work hard or slack.

Are all workers lazy if they are union members? Some of the most skilled guys I've met have been in union shops.

Pete, I have worked in an office and managed a team of as many as 8 actuaries. I was good at it, but now with kids I want to be done for the day at 5:00 every day.

8 guys, so you were kinda like a foreman?

Unlike you, I also know how to discuss things without getting ignored from people as rational as Bryan and not get banned from starting threads. I've never believed that the total measure of a man is how high he is on the company org chart. You obviously feel differently. That mindset shows in the angry, pathetic, warped nature of your posts. And you inability to ever admit that anyone to the right of Pol Pot has ever been right about anything on this forum.

I'm going to retire with a nest egg that will allow my wife and I to live on the interest, and leave every cent of principal for our kids. That's my goal. Having done what we need to do to achieve that, why would I want to work any longer hours than I have to? It's a flaw to take my kids off the school bus? id rather play catch with my kids until dark than work. Id rather coach little league than miss half the games. Read into that whatever you want.

Shock you're a union guy. We're all shocked.

Sorry, never a union member.
But have worked with some great union guys.
Unions aren't that scary.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry, never a union member.
But have worked with some great union guys.
Unions aren't that scary.

"Are all workers lazy if they are union members? "

Hearing voices again, I see. I also worked with union workers who were tireless heroes. But when you pay the worst teacher the same as the best teacher, every honest person knows what happens in the end. Then, with public unions, you have the insurmountable conflict interest that arises when the unions give big $$ to elect democrats, who then decide how much money to give to the unions they are beholden to. Again, it's easy to predict what happens there.

Pete, the principal asked us to look in the hallway for a couple of minutes to help keep kids safe, and the union forbid us to do it. If that's OK with you, good for you.

Pete, I have worked in an office and managed a team of as many as 8 actuaries. I was good at it, but now with kids I want to be done for the day at 5:00 every day.

"8 guys, so you were kinda like a foreman?"

I don't know what I was kinda like in your bizarre world, only what I actually was in my world.

"Unions aren't that scary."

Again, hearing whose voices. Not scary. But in the public sphere, they are deeply corrupt, and horribly expensive and inefficient.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry, never a union member.
But have worked with some great union guys.
Unions aren't that scary.

There's a difference in the quality and quantity of "scary" between or among different types or classifications of unions such as public sector, or international, or trade unions, or private sector single shop unions.

Public sector unions are the scariest. Strictly in-shop private sector unions make the most sense and are not very scary.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction.

Union shop, you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work.

That’s the difference between manager and master.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction. "

And I've been in a teachers union. Since we're talking about education, which is more relevant?

"you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work."

Not in any teachers union. Not how it works.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Sorry, I’ve managed union work in construction. "

And I've been in a teachers union. Since we're talking about education, which is more relevant?

"you need to talk to the reps about what you’d like them to do. Common goals work."

Not in any teachers union. Not how it works.

I've been on a school board, that is how teacher contracts work.

A principal is an administrator and can't arbitrarily change work rules. That's not how it works.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I've been on a school board, that is how teacher contracts work.

A principal is an administrator and can't arbitrarily change work rules. That's not how it works.

right. so asking teachers to spend three minutes looking in the hallway, is a big “change to work
rules” when you’re in a union, something they wouldn’t have to ask twice if teachers in a private school.

That’s the difference. It’s a big difference to many people. It’s indicative that public teachers answer to the union, while private school teachers answer to the families they serve, and that difference in mindset, is precisely why private schools are so much better. it’s why people
have disdain for the unions.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

right. so asking teachers to spend three minutes looking in the hallway, is a big “change to work
rules” when you’re in a union, something they wouldn’t have to ask twice if teachers in a private school.

That’s the difference. It’s a big difference to many people. It’s indicative that public teachers answer to the union, while private school teachers answer to the families they serve, and that difference in mindset, is precisely why private schools are so much better. it’s why people
have disdain for the unions.
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I did not say it was a "big" change.
It's a change, and I suppose I could just tell my insurance company that I want a little more coverage, they wouldn't want compensation.

You seem to think since you work in the private sector, you are entitled to a higher income with less responsibility.

And those who teach should just be grateful for the opportunity and behave correctly.