breonna taylor tragedy

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

and they don’t go to court, unless they’re arrested for a crime.

why can’t you guys ever answer a question? what’s the crime?

is there any chance you junk she’s be dead, if the guy with her didn’t shoot a cop? he shot a cop. he may we’ll have not known they were cops ( which means he may not have committed a crime). but if you shout a cop, a hail of gunfire is coming back your way. that's how it works. you think they should
have shot the gun out of his hand in that moment?

how many rounds are cops allowed to fire back when one of them is shot and severs an artery in his leg? is the crime that the woman died? or how many rounds they fired?
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Jim the crime is killing an innocent women

How it it a crime

By firing indiscriminately beacause someone fired a shot.

So your logic if police are fired apon from a crowd of protester they are justified in firing indiscriminately into the Crowd.. with out positively IDing the shooter... see now why police need to be better retrained before discharging their weapons .. because if your off 2 inchs at 20ft wheres that round going at 300ft.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim the crime is killing an innocent women

How it it a crime

By firing indiscriminately beacause someone fired a shot.

So your logic if police are fired apon from a crowd of protester they are justified in firing indiscriminately into the Crowd.. with out positively IDing the shooter... see now why police need to be better retrained before discharging their weapons .. because if you off 2 inchs at 20ft wheres that round going at 300ft.
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it’s a crime, punishable by prison, to kill an innocent person accidentally while returning fire?

fortunately, that’s not a crime.

the need for better training is a good idea. charging them with murder? bonkers.

anyway, as always, we see what happens when liberals don’t get their way.

oh hey! since you said there isn’t enough time
to look into a S.C. nominee, look at the timeline for Ginsburgs confirmation.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim 20 rds fired indiscriminately and they killed a defenseless women you can't goto prision if you never make it to court . g

Sergeant Mattingly identified two individuals standing beside one another at the end of the hall, a male and a female. In his statement, he says that the male was holding a gun, arms extended in a shooting stance.

so she wasn't shot in her bed...just for the record

Wayne, if you are at one end of the hall and there are two people at the other end of the hall and one is pointing a gun at you and you see the gun go off and either you or your partner is shot... are you shooting back? or waiting for the next bullet(s) to come your way to see what happens?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

Sergeant Mattingly identified two individuals standing beside one another at the end of the hall, a male and a female. In his statement, he says that the male was holding a gun, arms extended in a shooting stance.

so she wasn't shot in her bed...just for the record

Wayne, if you are at one end of the hall and there are two people at the other end of the hall and one is pointing a gun at you and you see the gun go off and either you or your partner is shot... are you shooting back? or waiting for the next bullet(s) to come your way to see what happens?

he won’t answer the question as you asked.

part two of that question is this: if you do shoot and accidentally hit the wrong one, should
you go to prison?
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

Sergeant Mattingly identified two individuals standing beside one another at the end of the hall, a male and a female. In his statement, he says that the male was holding a gun, arms extended in a shooting stance.

so she wasn't shot in her bed...just for the record

Wayne, if you are at one end of the hall and there are two people at the other end of the hall and one is pointing a gun at you and you see the gun go off and either you or your partner is shot... are you shooting back? or waiting for the next bullet(s) to come your way to see what happens?

Its amazing blame the victims. Police are supposedly trained so now they were down the hallway . So from their bed room they heard the word police over their door being kicked in

Enter the hall way to see wtf going on with a gun he owend legally fired on them then they blasted of 20 rds

But to you its their fault
1 for self defensive
2 blame Taylor because of her x boyfriend

But no issues with the police..

Police have the obligation to do it right
But it seem you and many others think its ok that if they created the situation and it ends badly . They have zero responsibility in the outcome

And thats the point you and others miss with out a day in court there is no accountability or justice. These aren't random events

police officer fired 13 shots, killing John Albers, 17, on 20 January 2018 in a Kansas City suburb.

Police had been called to check on the boy, who had ADHD, after his online posts prompted fears for his safety.

A month after the shooting the county prosecutor announced the officer, Clayton Jenison, would not be charged.

Its all acceptable until it happens to you or someone close untill then its all BS. Just Like covid

And wanting police to be held accountable is not being anti police .

Ps this bs police have family's to go home to excuse .. to justify killing unarmed people is pathetic .. most people have family's to go home to. And we dont use that justification for the Kid texting on his way home who killed someone in a car accident, or the guy working extra shifts who fell asleep at the wheel and crossed into the other lane... those people get charged and have their day in court and are held accountable accident or not

But police can fire indiscriminately into 2 or crowds of people

Because their actions

"justified to protect themselves and the justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges".

So all an officer needs to say is he thought i was our we were and fill in the rest of the blanks .. and hes all set..

Ps ive been shot at and guess what i didn’t order my men to unload on home or people in the area because . And i did many no knock raids on homes with men women and kids at night and never myself or my men shot anyone because we thought they had a gun and this was in Iraq but it seems to be acceptable here at home and supported by other Americans. I can figure rhat one out
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Its amazing blame the victims. Police are supposedly trained so now they were down the hallway . So from their bed room they heard the word police over their door being kicked in

Enter the hall way to see wtf going on with a gun he owend legally fired on them then they blasted of 20 rds

But to you its their fault
1 for self defensive
2 blame Taylor because of her x boyfriend

But no issues with the police..

Police have the obligation to do it right
But it seem you and many others think its ok that if they created the situation and it ends badly . They have zero responsibility in the outcome

And thats the point you and others miss with out a day in court there is no accountability or justice. These aren't random
police officer fired 13 shots, killing John Albers, 17, on 20 January 2018 in a Kansas City suburb.

Police had been called to check on the boy, who had ADHD, after his online posts prompted fears for his safety.

A month after the shooting the county prosecutor announced the officer, Clayton Jenison, would not be charged.

Its all acceptable until it happens to you or someone close untill then its all BS. Just Like covid

And wanting police to be held accountable is not being anti police .

Ps this bs police have family's to go home to excuse .. to justify killing unarmed people is pathetic .. most people have family's to go home to. And we dont use that justification for the Kid texting on his way home who killed someone in a car accident, or the guy working extra shifts who fell asleep at the wheel and crossed into the other lane... those people get charged and have their day in court and are held accountable accident or not

But police can fire indiscriminately into 2 or crowds of people

Because their actions

"justified to protect themselves and the justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges".

So all an officer needs to say is he thought i was our we were and fill in the rest of the blanks .. and hes all set..
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you keep making stuff up....I didn't say it was their fault...the whole this is unfortunate...but...the police would never have been at her apartment door that night if she'd not been dating a violent drug dealing criminal

I have an issue with the cop in the parking lot ...he was charged

not true regarding police accountability...Im glad the cop that knelt on the neck of Floyd was charged but Floyd is as much to blame for his own death as the cop


who said "anti-police"?

the rest of what you wrote is rambling

[Jim in CT]

wdmso, i don’t always believe cops. you’re making stuff up. i’m talking about this case. this specific case.

the media and prominent liberals caused these riots. they caused those cops to be shot. they’re using the mob to help biden win. they don’t care about the carnage and destruction in their wake.

another key question - what evidence is there, that race played any role whatsoever?

not every tragedy is a crime. and you judge each case on the facts of that case. whatever happened in other cases, means nothing.
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[Jim in CT]

and i’d be very curious to know what the liberals here think, of the entire media spinning this for
months, as a no knock entry, where
cops went in guns blazing because the occupants were black.

i never, not once, heard anyone in the media say the cops announced themselves, nor did i ever, not once, hear the media say the cops were shot at first, hitting one in the leg, severing his artery.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

i never, not once, heard anyone in the media say the cops announced themselves, nor did i ever, not once, hear the media say the cops were shot at first, hitting one in the leg, severing his artery.
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Either you don't know the facts or you're intentionally lying.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Either you don't know the facts or you're intentionally lying.

in every one of these cases the left and media has lied and mischaracterized the facts to fuel the mobs rage

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Either you don't know the facts or you're intentionally lying.

Almost no one knew those facts. If they did, they'd feel no reason to riot.

Paul, the truth no longer matters. Just The Narrative.

ANY sane person could only conclude that her death is the fault of the guy she was with.

Facts don't matter, only The Narrative.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Almost no one knew those facts. If they did, they'd feel no reason to riot.

.

The facts are they entered her house and a gun fight started. Of the dozen of neighbors interviewed one said he heard the police yell bf busting the door down. Why were they entering her house? Her ex boyfriend didn't live there. The police claimed in the app. for the warrant that the ex boyfriend left her apartment about two months before with a USPS package so they assumed it was drugs. The cop then said they verified with the USPS that the ex boyfriend had been receiving packages at Taylor's house - the USPS said that is not true. I believe the new boyfriend called 911 and said someone is invading my house. Her death is the fault of crappy police work.

The bigger problem is that hardly any police are ever prosecuted. If some where then people would have more confidence that justice was being carried out.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The facts are they entered her house and a gun fight started. Of the dozen of neighbors interviewed one said he heard the police yell bf busting the door down. Why were they entering her house? Her ex boyfriend didn't live there. The police claimed in the app. for the warrant that the ex boyfriend left her apartment about two months before with a USPS package so they assumed it was drugs. The cop then said they verified with the USPS that the ex boyfriend had been receiving packages at Taylor's house - the USPS said that is not true. I believe the new boyfriend called 911 and said someone is invading my house. Her death is the fault of crappy police work.

The bigger problem is that hardly any police are ever prosecuted. If some where then people would have more confidence that justice was being carried out.

wow...that's some impressive command of the facts

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The facts are they entered her house and a gun fight started. Of the dozen of neighbors interviewed one said he heard the police yell bf busting the door down. Why were they entering her house? Her ex boyfriend didn't live there. The police claimed in the app. for the warrant that the ex boyfriend left her apartment about two months before with a USPS package so they assumed it was drugs. The cop then said they verified with the USPS that the ex boyfriend had been receiving packages at Taylor's house - the USPS said that is not true. I believe the new boyfriend called 911 and said someone is invading my house. Her death is the fault of crappy police work.

The bigger problem is that hardly any police are ever prosecuted. If some where then people would have more confidence that justice was being carried out.

You left out some facts, and by a stunning coincidence, those omissions serve your narrative.

The cops announced themselves before entering (according to neighbors who heard them), and the guy in the apartment shot first. Even he says he shot first.

Did THOSE cops who entered, are they the ones who got the warrant?

She died because the guy she was with, shot first. Maybe he didn 't hear them identify themselves, which compounds the tragedy.

Paul, I'll ask you, where is the evidence that race played any role?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

the officers did not execute a no-knock warrant. even i thought they did, because everyone was saying it.

Everyone was saying it because a no knock warrant is what was initially issued. After it was determined Breonna Taylor had no criminal history they were advised to knock. I don't think this was public info until this week. Even though, a pounding on the door before bursting through doesn't make much of a difference. You likely don't have time to realize what's going on. I had a home invasion once, it was a blur.

according to what the cops said, and corroborated by people
living in the apartment building, the cops yelled “police” first, then knocked.

Not people, a single person said they heard the cops say police. Several others nearby said they only heard the knock.

upon entering, taylor’s boyfriend ( a drug dealer for whom the warrant was granted) shot one of the cops. he admits he fired first.

Her boyfriend at the time was not a drug dealer and was not on the warrant. Breonna Taylor was on the warrant because the police were suspicious she was handling drugs for a former boyfriend who is a drug dealer. This claim was investigated by the Postal Inspector before the search and found to be untrue. The police moved forward anyway.

almost everything i heard about this case in the media was a lie. a politically convenient lie.

That's because you don't take the time to read basic and readily available reporting.

Also note there are claims that the police tried to cover up their actions by trying to get the actual drug dealer to lie and say Breonna Taylor was involved in a crime syndicate.

It does seem a little crazy that the only charges filed had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death but around the shots fired into an adjacent apartment. Had George Floyd not happened this whole event would have just been swept under the rug.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It does seem a little crazy that the only charges filed had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death but around the shots fired into an adjacent apartment.

those are the only shots that were fired that were not justified...why is that difficult for you to understand?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by spence

Also note there are claims that the police tried to cover up their actions by trying to get the actual drug dealer to lie and say Breonna Taylor was involved in a crime syndicate.

yes, that is stunning.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Everyone was saying it because a no knock warrant is what was initially issued. After it was determined Breonna Taylor had no criminal history they were advised to knock. I don't think this was public info until this week. Even though, a pounding on the door before bursting through doesn't make much of a difference. You likely don't have time to realize what's going on. I had a home invasion once, it was a blur.


Not people, a single person said they heard the cops say police. Several others nearby said they only heard the knock.


Her boyfriend at the time was not a drug dealer and was not on the warrant. Breonna Taylor was on the warrant because the police were suspicious she was handling drugs for a former boyfriend who is a drug dealer. This claim was investigated by the Postal Inspector before the search and found to be untrue. The police moved forward anyway.


That's because you don't take the time to read basic and readily available reporting.

Also note there are claims that the police tried to cover up their actions by trying to get the actual drug dealer to lie and say Breonna Taylor was involved in a crime syndicate.

It does seem a little crazy that the only charges filed had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death but around the shots fired into an adjacent apartment. Had George Floyd not happened this whole event would have just been swept under the rug.

"It does seem a little crazy that the only charges filed had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death "

So you feel that if the cops are shot at first (not in dispute), and they return fire, if they kill an innocent bystander, they should go to prison? THAT'S what you're saying? You think it should be a crime if they miss their aim?

God almighty, man. How can you say that with a straight face?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"It does seem a little crazy that the only charges filed had nothing to do with Breonna Taylor's death "

So you feel that if the cops are shot at first (not in dispute), and they return fire, if they kill an innocent bystander, they should go to prison? THAT'S what you're saying? You think it should be a crime if they miss their aim?

God almighty, man. How can you say that with a straight face?

One of the officers is looking at up to 15 years as things sit now.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

One of the officers is looking at up to 15 years as things sit now.

As always, you responded to something I didn't ask. I asked if you think it's a crime, for a police officer to return fire and kill a bystander accidentally? Because your side is upset that he wasn't charged in her death. To charge a cop in her death, necessarily means you think it's a crime to return fire and accidentally miss. What would have to happen, for you to respond to what I said? To respond to what I actually said?

He's not going to get any real time, then we'll riot all over again.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

As always, you responded to something I didn't ask. I asked if you think it's a crime, for a police officer to return fire and kill a bystander accidentally? Because your side is upset that he wasn't charged in her death. To charge a cop in her death, necessarily means you think it's a crime to return fire and accidentally miss. What would have to happen, for you to respond to what I said? To respond to what I actually said?

He's not going to get any real time, then we'll riot all over again.

I still don't understand how only one of the cops could get charged. While I'm sure they used forensics to identify which gun's bullets entered the other apartment they were all blasting away. So one gets charged for not being as good of a shot? What if he had killed the pregnant woman or her 5 year old?

I don't think you could get a felony murder charge, but the entire way the operation was run was extremely reckless. The reforms announced are a drop in the bucket as to what's needed.

Another big item, if you don't believe you're a lawbreaker, why would you ever think the police would force entry into your castle? Kenneth Walker thought it was a home invasion, doesn't he have a right to self defense? Where is the 2A crowd on this one?

[Jim in CT]

The only way to charge a cop with Taylors death, is to believe that when cops are shot at (and even shot), and they return fire, that its a crime if they miss. You're saying that in a justified shooting situation, cops should go to prison if they accidentally miss. How can any sane person believe that?

And is there any evidence, that race played any kind of a role?

Flush the truth down the toilet, start the liberal spin.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Is there body cam footage of any of this?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Is there body cam footage of any of this?
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of what? he guy who was there concedes he shot first. he says he didn’t hear them
announce themselves.
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[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

of what? he guy who was there concedes he shot first. he says he didn’t hear them
announce themselves.
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1. Prove that they actually announced themselves 1X let along repeatedly
2. See Pete's post below. If that is true, the body cam should prove they announced as police before knocking the door in. If they did, case closed.

I also agree once it started, the police reacted as they are trained. One of the questions to ask, should they have been there in that form and way at all. It seems like the evidence was pretty muddled for that style of raid/arrest/search.

From Pete's post:
Walker admits he fired first. But he says he fired only after he and Taylor repeatedly asked who was pounding at the door, got no answer, and after a battering ram busted open the door. If Walker reasonably believed that the men breaking into the apartment were not police, he had every right to defend himself and Taylor. At that point, the police also had the right to return fire. The latter would be true even if the courts later determined that the police had failed to properly identify themselves (which would make this a no-knock raid) and the no-knock portion of the warrant was later determined to be illegal (which it was). That’s how the law works.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

The latter would be true even if the courts later determined that the police had failed to properly identify themselves (which would make this a no-knock raid) and the no-knock portion of the warrant was later determined to be illegal (which it was). That’s how the law works.

The degree to which the police botched this is pretty crazy and then trying to cover it up is depraved.

The Supreme Court ruled decades ago that if you're going to forcibly enter someone's castle to serve a drug warrant you must give specific direct evidence on the person named in the warrant. You can't just say, well it's a drug related case so let's do whatever we want. Guilt by association isn't good enough.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

The degree to which the police botched this is pretty crazy .

yeah...you keep saying this

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

1. Prove that they actually announced themselves 1X let along repeatedly
2. See Pete's post below. If that is true, the body cam should prove they announced as police before knocking the door in. If they did, case closed.

.

you know all the evidence has been heard by a grand jury...right?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

you know all the evidence has been heard by a grand jury...right?

Has it? Do we know if there is cam footage or was it ‘turned off’? We the knock/announcement a ‘cough cough whisper police cough cough’ before the battering ram or what?

If it went down as reported I have little issue with then shooting back after the boyfriend fired first.

I have questions as to why they were there in the first place and what they did to get there. It seems sloppy at best.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

1. Prove that they actually announced themselves 1X let along repeatedly
2. See Pete's post below. If that is true, the body cam should prove they announced as police before knocking the door in. If they did, case closed.

I also agree once it started, the police reacted as they are trained. One of the questions to ask, should they have been there in that form and way at all. It seems like the evidence was pretty muddled for that style of raid/arrest/search.

From Pete's post:
Walker admits he fired first. But he says he fired only after he and Taylor repeatedly asked who was pounding at the door, got no answer, and after a battering ram busted open the door. If Walker reasonably believed that the men breaking into the apartment were not police, he had every right to defend himself and Taylor. At that point, the police also had the right to return fire. The latter would be true even if the courts later determined that the police had failed to properly identify themselves (which would make this a no-knock raid) and the no-knock portion of the warrant was later determined to be illegal (which it was). That’s how the law works.

a neighbor said he heard them. and the cops said they did.

it’s not case closed if they did. he still might not have heard them. it’s not always a good idea for them
to announce themselves, sometimes surprise is a good idea.

bry, occasionally horrible things will
happen. that’s what happens. it’s not always a crime. certainly not in the case of her death.

yes i’ll
believe the washington post,m

i have zero issue with re examining he process. but bryan, do you think that if a cop is shot, he returns fire but hits someone accidentally, should he go to prison? it’s a crime to miss? that’s what almost everyone on the left wants. it’s bonkers.
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