The million crybaby march is underway...

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Ann coulter? Good lord tell me you are not a fan of that evil hate filled #^&#^&#^&#^&.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

she's a blonde witch - easily boils your BLOOD

and i firmly Agree .... you have to be a total
free thinker to POST at S-B

[Nebe]

I agree. You shouldn't silence her by turning her away.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Welders make more than Philosophers.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Welders make more than Philosophers.

Unless the philosopher happens to be a professor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

Unless the philosopher happens to be a professor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Depends on where you work too...
We don't all make 400K!

There is a market Jim.
Want to go to a religious based school, they exist. Jesuit, go to BC. Fundamentalist, go to Liberty; they have an entire creationist center. I know, I went to grad school with a prof there.

Want to go to a school where there is zero research being done by the faculty? Go to a community college or a for-profit (Univ of Phoenix et al). Pay by the course. The job market and employers set the value on those degrees vs a more traditional four-year degree.

ABET is a not for profit accreditation program for engineers, even they think you need more than just your 'major' classes.

Last, in the sciences we largely do fund our own research externally. This research allows us to advance our sciences, train students in research and hopefully in the prepare the next generation. Add to that service internally helping the university and externally, doing outreach and community education adds hours for me as well.

Teaching vs. research load varies by the school. At an R-I university (research-I) school, the profs teach less and research more. At and R-II or R-III the balance swings the other way. Again, the market place is there, defined and easily interpreted by parents and incoming students. Is college too expensive? Yes, and I would like to see it cheaper (not free) but students do have options. No one is forcing you to go to Conn College.

As far as what happened the last week? This crap happens every decade; boomers parents lamented the 1960's college experience; they lamented their kids experiences and actions in the 1980's.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Depends on where you work too...
We don't all make 400K!

There is a market Jim.
Want to go to a religious based school, they exist. Jesuit, go to BC. Fundamentalist, go to Liberty; they have an entire creationist center. I know, I went to grad school with a prof there.

Want to go to a school where there is zero research being done by the faculty? Go to a community college or a for-profit (Univ of Phoenix et al). Pay by the course. The job market and employers set the value on those degrees vs a more traditional four-year degree.

ABET is a not for profit accreditation program for engineers, even they think you need more than just your 'major' classes.

Last, in the sciences we largely do fund our own research externally. This research allows us to advance our sciences, train students in research and hopefully in the prepare the next generation. Add to that service internally helping the university and externally, doing outreach and community education adds hours for me as well.

Teaching vs. research load varies by the school. At an R-I university (research-I) school, the profs teach less and research more. At and R-II or R-III the balance swings the other way. Again, the market place is there, defined and easily interpreted by parents and incoming students. Is college too expensive? Yes, and I would like to see it cheaper (not free) but students do have options. No one is forcing you to go to Conn College.

As far as what happened the last week? This crap happens every decade; boomers parents lamented the 1960's college experience; they lamented their kids experiences and actions in the 1980's.

"There is a market Jim. "

Not at public schools. UCONN is the flagship public school in CT. If I want to go there, and het a degree in engineering or accounting, I need to take a couple semesters' worth of liberal stuff. If we want to make college less expensive, one way to do it, would be to offer kids the choice to eliminate that other stuff. Again, liberals sure like to identify themselves as pro-choice, so I can't fathom why they'd have any issue with that. It would also make college much more affordable. I would argue that in the vast majority of cases, the kids aren't missing out on much. That's based on my experience as a student, my experience as a teacher, and my exoerience hiring a large number of recent college grads over the years, and my observations of my brother and my friend who are full-time college professors. And my observations of the way these kids act when their hard-core liberal beliefs are challenged in any way.

If UCONN offered such a degree, I would bet my life that the accounbting majors who took the expedited track, would be just as in demand as those whochose to take the liberal stuff.

Yoiu are saying that if kids just want to take courses relevent to their profession, they are releggated to community colleges and for-profits. Why pidgeon-hole these kids that way? Don't you want these kids to have good opportunities?

Liberals claim to care about choice, claim to care bout helping the poor. Yet if a poor kid wants to go to UCONN to stuy engineeriung, but he can't afford all the extra stuff, you'd relegate him to a sub-par school. Is that consistent with the liberal ideology? I don't think so.

It's win-win. It increases choice, and drives down costs, both stated goals of the left.

"This crap happens every decade"

Right. It happens all the time. And who are the ones engaging in anarchy? Did the young Republicans clubs at colleges, go crazy when OJ was acquitted? Nope. It's almost always the liberals. Because that's what they learn - when someone challenges your beliefs, they are a hatemonger, so treat them as such. That proves my point, which is that there's little real-life value to that Marxist garbage. It's all a scam. Professors like money, so they cram the required agenda with useless crap that guarantees job security. And also completely fails to prepare these kids for real life.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Liberals claim to care about choice, claim to care bout helping the poor. Yet if a poor kid wants to go to UCONN to stuy engineeriung, but he can't afford all the extra stuff, you'd relegate him to a sub-par school.

It has nothing to do with relegating them. It has to do with meeting national requirements for degrees.

Then WHY THE #^&#^&#^&#^& does ABET, who is responsible for accrediting engineering programs not accredit programs where there is no 'extra stuff'

I looked at UCONN, for Mech Engineering, I count 5 "Extra" classes labeled as Gen Ed (I am not counting a basic writing course as 'extra')

For a full-time student, there is not much difference financially for full-time (12-18 credits/semester), so this is less than 1 course a semester 'extra'. For Part-time, there is a difference in cost per-course, however, the English majors forced to take my Earth Science classes probably feel the same way, but I damn sure think they should take some science and math!

For UCONN Accounting, why don't they offer an expedited Accounting major, you think it is just a big scam? It isn't to fulfill the requirements for the national board for accrediting a degree. This isn't about denying choice.
I counted 7 "Extra" classes for accounting, and I suspect you can double dip categories and requirements to get this to 4 or 5.

"We were the first accounting program in New England to receive separate national accreditation by AACSB International, the premier accrediting agency for Bachelor’s, Master’s and doctoral degree programs in business administration and accounting."
http://accounting.business.uconn.edu/#


This is all based on MY experience as a professor. It isn't a perfect system but what you describe is a step backwards, NOT forward.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Welders make more than Philosophers.

philosophical welders make even more!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

I heard the crybabies are going to not participate and shut things down if they don't get their way!

[Nebe]

I can guarantee you one thing.
Not sure how to prove this theory but I would guess that Bernie Sandars has a much higher ratio of college educated free thinking types vs while trump has the same ratio, but it's GED VS high school diploma.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I can guarantee you one thing.
Not sure how to prove this theory but I would guess that Bernie Sandars has a much higher ratio of college educated free thinking types vs while trump has the same ratio, but it's GED VS high school diploma.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"Sandars has a much higher ratio of college educated free thinking types "

You may be right. And the reason, is that academia is radically liberal. If the people who teach those classes tell their students "you should demand that college be free, and at the same time, we all want raises", then they aren't helping those kids, and the kids are wasting time and money.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I can guarantee you one thing.
Not sure how to prove this theory but I would guess that Bernie Sandars has a much higher ratio of college educated free thinking types vs while trump has the same ratio, but it's GED VS high school diploma.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

That will all change when the freethinkers have jobs and families to support . Unless of course you and I are supporting their family's
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

I can guarantee you one thing.
Not sure how to prove this theory but I would guess that Bernie Sandars has a much higher ratio of college educated free thinking types vs while trump has the same ratio, but it's GED VS high school diploma.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

pretty sure Bernie Sandbars has a higher ratio of stoned supporters too!

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

pretty sure Bernie Sandbars has a higher ratio of stoned supporters too!

That's why they are free from thinking
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jimbo]

Professor Rockhound, my career was with the world's largest global satellite communications provider. I took a 1 year program and got a diploma in computer programming that got my foot in the door and spent the next 30 years jumping on things my college education prepared me for, like developing a distance learning program, writing procedures, writing documentation, writing press releases, writing patents to protect the company's intellectual property, asset management. If I encountered a situation where I was in an engineering function, which happened frequently, like doing equations of some sort, I got someone to show me the steps on their calculator and I memorized them. I think they call it "on the job training, or learning by doing". I think a lot of professional jobs are like that. You get the basics of something in college and take that to the workforce and apply it.
What I'm profoundly confused about is how the statement can be made that math and science for the non-technical person is recommended, but public speaking, creative or technical writing, or history for the technically bound is a load of crap.
I don't necessarily think kids really want college to be cheaper, I think many just want to bypass things they think are trivial, bypass entry level jobs and jump into a CEO's salary because they think they're owed that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Professor Rockhound, my career was with the world's largest global satellite communications provider. I took a 1 year program and got a diploma in computer programming that got my foot in the door and spent the next 30 years jumping on things my college education prepared me for, like developing a distance learning program, writing procedures, writing documentation, writing press releases, writing patents to protect the company's intellectual property, asset management. If I encountered a situation where I was in an engineering function, which happened frequently, like doing equations of some sort, I got someone to show me the steps on their calculator and I memorized them. I think they call it "on the job training, or learning by doing". I think a lot of professional jobs are like that. You get the basics of something in college and take that to the workforce and apply it.
What I'm profoundly confused about is how the statement can be made that math and science for the non-technical person is recommended, but public speaking, creative or technical writing, or history for the technically bound is a load of crap.
I don't necessarily think kids really want college to be cheaper, I think many just want to bypass things they think are trivial, bypass entry level jobs and jump into a CEO's salary because they think they're owed that.

Bingo.

Additionally, the engineering or actuary job Jim wants to fast track to is evaporating. His is a 1993's mindset at best.

The innovation economy of the future doesn't reward narrowly minded thinkers, it requires a multi-perspective approach to everything that can synthesize dissimilar ideas, market them, manage them etc…

I'm an artist in a sales job working with engineers on operational strategy. It's exactly what the ancient Greeks wanted.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Professor Rockhound, my career was with the world's largest global satellite communications provider. I took a 1 year program and got a diploma in computer programming that got my foot in the door and spent the next 30 years jumping on things my college education prepared me for, like developing a distance learning program, writing procedures, writing documentation, writing press releases, writing patents to protect the company's intellectual property, asset management. If I encountered a situation where I was in an engineering function, which happened frequently, like doing equations of some sort, I got someone to show me the steps on their calculator and I memorized them. I think they call it "on the job training, or learning by doing". I think a lot of professional jobs are like that. You get the basics of something in college and take that to the workforce and apply it.
What I'm profoundly confused about is how the statement can be made that math and science for the non-technical person is recommended, but public speaking, creative or technical writing, or history for the technically bound is a load of crap.
I don't necessarily think kids really want college to be cheaper, I think many just want to bypass things they think are trivial, bypass entry level jobs and jump into a CEO's salary because they think they're owed that.

Just remember that if you have a background like you do, you might not believe that the pyramids were built to store grain.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Professor Rockhound, my career was with the world's largest global satellite communications provider. I took a 1 year program and got a diploma in computer programming that got my foot in the door and spent the next 30 years jumping on things my college education prepared me for, like developing a distance learning program, writing procedures, writing documentation, writing press releases, writing patents to protect the company's intellectual property, asset management. If I encountered a situation where I was in an engineering function, which happened frequently, like doing equations of some sort, I got someone to show me the steps on their calculator and I memorized them. I think they call it "on the job training, or learning by doing". I think a lot of professional jobs are like that. You get the basics of something in college and take that to the workforce and apply it.
What I'm profoundly confused about is how the statement can be made that math and science for the non-technical person is recommended, but public speaking, creative or technical writing, or history for the technically bound is a load of crap.
I don't necessarily think kids really want college to be cheaper, I think many just want to bypass things they think are trivial, bypass entry level jobs and jump into a CEO's salary because they think they're owed that.

"but public speaking, creative or technical writing, or history for the technically bound is a load of crap"

Those things aren't a load of crap. But that's not the core of liberal arts courses. The core of liberal arts programs is to create a sense of entitlement, victimhood, and liberalism. Turn on the TV , watch what has been happening at Yale, maybe the finest liberal arts school in the world. The students there are idiotic, they couldn't form a coherent thought if their life depended on it. They are not learning the skills that you itemized, no one would be opposed to genuinely learning those skills. Those skills are critical. That's not what is being ingrained in these kids.

"I don't necessarily think kids really want college to be cheaper"

Due respect, then you're not paying attention to what they are saying, which is probably why you think liberal arts courses are designed to teach the valuable skills you itemized".

[Sea Dangles]

I say we should keep college expensive. If your parents are unable to afford it then learn how to use a shovel or clean tables.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Nebe]

Ha! Yes!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Hey, Nebe, maybe the poor and middle class Egyptians originally built them to store grain so that they would have a supply of food in the bad times like when global warming dried up the Nile and so forth. You know . . . that fair distribution of stuff that poor and middle class folk believe in. But, as always seems to be the case, the top .01 percent, Pharaohs and such, scarfed up the pyramids which were built on the backs of the poor, for their own personal use. You know . . . that income inequality thing . . . The poor and middle class Egyptians sure could have used a Bernie back then.

[Jim in CT]

AT Amherst College, another one of the premier liberal arts colleges in the world, students want to punish a student who carried a sign saying, get ready for the horror, "all lives matter".

Among their demands...get a load of all this open-minded thought, Spence!!

"we do not tolerate the actions of student(s) who posted the ‘All Lives Matter’ posters, and the ‘Free Speech’ posters"

Wow! That's open-mindedness, and respectful of opposing points of view, eh? They are insisting on silencing those who feel that all life matters. If that's the "reward" for a world-class liberal arts curriculum, forgive me if I'm not impressed.

Read the wording..."we do not tolerate..." I wonder where they learned all that tolerance?


http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/13/am...d-free-speech/

Of course, it sounds great to say that we need well-rounded folks. I don't disagree. But the empirical evidence suggests that liberal arts courses are not the path to acquiring those skills.