Is this true??

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I have a solid fact for you. The real catholic church is happy to take the money of anybody who calls themselves catholic. And trust me when I tell you that the more they give,the more they are welcome.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And if you're interested, it's not a fact. The church has rejected donations when principles were at stake. Sylvester Stallone, who claims to be Catholic, wanted one of his many weddings to be at St Patrick Cathedral in NYC, he offered to make a huge donation to the chirch if they agreed, they said no thanks.

The Catholic Church is very aggressive about raising money. Much of that money, goes to people in need. I don't see a lot of priests living in luxury, not in proportion to the hours they put in.

What religion are you, Dangles? How many hospitals, soup kitchens, schools, homeless shelters, does your church operate? It takes $$.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?

Being against abortion doesn't necessarily mean you're Catholic either .
I'm going to be a grandfather in a few months . I dare you to look at a modern ultrasound of a three month old fetus and not believe that that is a life . Not condemning those that have abortions just telling you the reality of the situation. It's all very sad
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well? Why not get the bishops to push them all out, I mean they're not really Catholics right?

Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white because they need the people or to Dangles point because they want the money?

If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith?

"What about all the pro-choice Catholic organizations? They're all fake as well?"

The organizations might be real, they might do a lot of good. Pro-abortion people can do wonderful things. What they cannot do, is be Catholics in good standing. Frame it any way you want, spin it any way you want. Being anti-abortion is a binding belief of the Cathchism.

"Is it possible the Church's position isn't really that black and white "

No. The church's position is as black and white as it gets. Some bishops may choose to tolerate pro-abortion folks (showing a lot more tolerance than your side does with pro-life folks), but that doesn't change the church's position on the issue, which is black-and-white.

"If the Church is willing to compromise a fundamental tenant what does that say about it's faith"

It says that Catholics share the same flaws that everyone else has. That shouldn't suprise you, but I guess it does.

I answered every single question you asked. Now, can I ask a simple one, and expect the same courtesy?

How come Hilary's lies don't say anything about her integrity, but Carson's lies say something about him? Please be more specific than "apples and oranges", that doesn't exactly explain the double standard you apply. Doesn't seem fair that I answer your questions, and you countinuously dodge mine.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

Being against abortion doesn't necessarily mean you're Catholic either .
I'm going to be a grandfather in a few months . I dare you to look at a modern ultrasound of a three month old fetus and not believe that that is a life . Not condemning those that have abortions just telling you the reality of the situation. It's all very sad
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"I'm going to be a grandfather in a few months "

Congratulations, good luck!

"I dare you to look at a modern ultrasound of a three month old fetus and not believe that that is a life"

To liberals, convenience trumps basic empathy.

"It's all very sad"

An understatement. Liberals now support the right of men to use the ladies' room, as long as said man chooses to self-identify as something other than that which he obviously is. I guess my brain isn't that evolved, maybe it requires years of Ivy League education to think that's not sick.

[PaulS]

Every non profit that doesn't 'earn' $ (think AAA) needs to constantly fund raise. Any time you give $ to a charity, you get lots of follow up requests.

[PaulS]

More on Carson

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican presidential contender Ben Carson has maintained a business relationship with a close friend convicted of defrauding insurance companies and testified on his behalf, even as the candidate has called for such crimes to be punished harshly.


Pittsburgh dentist Alfonso A. Costa pleaded guilty to a felony count of health care fraud after an FBI probe into his oral surgery practice found he had charged for procedures he never performed, according to court records.

Though the crime carries a potential sentence of up to 10 years in federal prison, Costa was able to avoid prison time after Carson helped petition a federal judge for leniency.

That's different from the position Carson took in 2013 as he prepared to launch his presidential campaign, saying those convicted of health care fraud should go to prison for at least a decade and be forced to forfeit "all of one's personal possessions."

At Costa's 2008 sentencing hearing, Carson described the dentist as "one my closest, if not my very closest friend."

"We became friends about a decade ago because we discovered that we were so much alike and shared the same values and principles that govern our lives," Carson told the judge, adding that their families vacationed together and that they were involved in "joint projects."

"Next to my wife of 32 years, there is no one on this planet that I trust more than Al Costa," Carson said.

Costa has served on the board of Carson's charity, the Carson Scholars Fund, and continues to lead the charity's fundraising efforts in the Pittsburgh area to provide $1,000 college scholarships to children in need.

Before his criminal conviction and the revocation of his license to practice dentistry, Costa built a multimillion-dollar fortune through commercial real estate. Investments Carson and his wife made through Costa earn the couple between $200,000 and $2 million a year, according to financial records that Carson was required to file when he declared his candidacy.

Costa also continues to promote his involvement with Carson's charity as part of his real estate business, prominently featuring the logo of the Carson Scholars Fund on the company's website. His son has worked with Carson's presidential campaign and a political committee founded by the retired neurosurgeon.
© AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar This Tuesday, Nov. 10, 2015 photo shows the office building, owned by BenCan LLC, and INBS LLC, in Mount Lebanon, Pa. Republican presidential contender Ben Carson has maintained a business relationship with a close friend, Pittsburgh dentist Alfonso Costa, convicted of defrauding insurance companies, even as the candidate has called for such crimes to be punished harshly. In 2007, a few months before Costa was charged, records show that a pair of corporations was established in Pennsylvania called BenCan LLC, and INBS LLC. Carson and his wife are listed as the sole members of the companies. Doug Watts, the campaign's spokesman, said Wednesday he was unable to immediately respond to specific questions about land deals involving Carson and Costa. The AP contacted Watts on Tuesday and again Wednesday.

"I will confirm they are best friends and that they do hold business investments together," Watts said.

Costa did not respond to messages seeking comment.

The breadth of the two men's business ties has not been previously reported, partly because details can be obscured in property and incorporation records. Costa's company and its affiliates own properties in at least five states and overseas.

In 2007, a few months before Costa was charged, records show that a pair of corporations was established in Pennsylvania called BenCan LLC, and INBS LLC. Carson and his wife are listed as the sole members of the companies. Though the Carsons live outside Baltimore, the mailing address on the incorporation forms was Costa's home address in Pittsburgh.

BenCan and INBS then paid more than $3 million to purchase an office building in suburban Pittsburgh. The mailing address for the corporations listed on the deed matches the office of Costa's real estate firm, Costa Land Co.

That September, federal prosecutors charged Costa, accusing him of fraud committed over a nearly five-year period, according to court records. Investigators determined that Costa's dental practice charged more than 50 patients for procedures that had not been performed, resulting in a loss of more than $40,000 to insurance companies.

After Costa pleaded guilty, 40 of his family members, friends and dental patients wrote letters to the judge as character witnesses. Carson was one of three people who also testified at Costa's 2008 sentencing hearing, stressing his friend's charitable works and vouching for his personal integrity. Also testifying on Costa's behalf was Jerome Bettis, a beloved former Pittsburgh Stealers running back who had helped bring home a Super Bowl trophy to the city two years earlier.

The government urged the judge to make an example of Costa.

"Reduction of a sentence based on good works by a wealthy person can create the appearance that a defendant's financial resources and prominent connections can skew the justice system in ways not available to persons of lesser means," a prosecutor told the judge.

In the end, Costa got no prison time. He was sentenced to one year of house arrest and 100 hours of community service, and ordered to pay more than $294,000 in fines and restitution. Costa later got 12 months shaved off his three-year probation.

Though Costa was assigned to serve his sentence in his 8,300-square-foot mansion in nearby Fox Chapel, his lawyers repeatedly returned to court to seek permission for him to travel. A few months after starting his sentence, Costa asked to travel to the White House as one of 10 invited guests at a June 2008 ceremony where President George W. Bush presented Carson with the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

The judge denied that request, though Costa was later allowed to take a month-long trip to the Italian coast while on probation to handle what his lawyer described as urgent business at a resort he owns.

Carson's appeal for leniency toward Costa contradicts the draconian criminal penalties he called for in his 2013 political treatise, "America the Beautiful." In his book, Carson wrote that anyone found guilty of health care fraud should face what he called the "Saudi Arabian Solution."

"Why don't people steal very often in Saudi Arabia?" Carson asked. "Obviously because the punishment is the amputation of one or more fingers. I would not advocate chopping off people's limbs, but there would be some very stiff penalties for this kind of fraud, such as loss of one's medical license for life, no less than 10 years in prison, and loss of all of one's personal possessions."

Despite the tough-on-crime message, Carson and his wife kept their investment with Costa in the years since his conviction. Tax bills for the Pittsburgh office building owned by the couple are mailed to Costa Land Co. A recent lease for a portion of the property was signed on the Carsons' behalf by the president of Costa's company.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

More on Carson


That September, federal prosecutors charged Costa, accusing him of fraud committed over a nearly five-year period, according to court records. Investigators determined that Costa's dental practice charged more than 50 patients for procedures that had not been performed, resulting in a loss of more than $40,000 to insurance companies.

should't that read "More on Costa"?

this guy works too hard,...Hillary made a lot more than that in like.... 1 day.... on cattle futures

[PaulS]

No, it shows how Carson's actions don't match his public statements and that he continues to associate with a convicted felon.

Given how Jim has made Pres. Obama's membership in Rev. Wright's church a centerpiece of his complaints, I would think he is going to be constantly bringing this up every time he posts about Carson (especially as sitting in church isn't nearly the same as having a financial arrangement (maybe a partnership??) with someone.)

Here is why it is different......

[Jim in CT]

Hilary's current husband used a young girl's reproductive organs as an ashtray (but my side is waging war on women), was impeached for lying about it, and was disbarred. Meaning, a group of lawyers decided he was too unethical to be included in their club.

If we judge candidates by the company they keep, let's dump both Carson and Hilary and move on? Paul, are you OK with that?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

No, it shows how Carson's actions don't match his public statements and that he continues to associate with a convicted felon.

Given how Jim has made Pres. Obama's membership in Rev. Wright's church a centerpiece of his complaints, I would think he is going to be constantly bringing this up every time he posts about Carson (especially as sitting in church isn't nearly the same as having a financial arrangement (maybe a partnership??) with someone.)

Here is why it is different......

cuz Obama and the minions set the very low standard going forward...as Eben would say meh?

[PaulS]

What does Bill have to do with Hillary's running for Pres?

Bill's cheating should not have been an issue (as sleazy as it is). In my opinion the impeachment hurt the Repub. (in a similiar fashion how Bengazi seems to have hurt them).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

No, it shows how Carson's actions don't match his public statements and that he continues to associate with a convicted felon.

Given how Jim has made Pres. Obama's membership in Rev. Wright's church a centerpiece of his complaints, I would think he is going to be constantly bringing this up every time he posts about Carson (especially as sitting in church isn't nearly the same as having a financial arrangement (maybe a partnership??) with someone.)

Here is why it is different......

Paul, I have said I don't support Carson. Been saying that for some time. What else do you want?

Yes, I get worked up over sillt little things like the fact that Obama's spiritual mentor, his political mentor, and his wife, all despise the country. I'm such a perfectionist, I know...

Many of the claims against Carson have been proven false. The WSJ questioned claims about a stunt during a class Carson took at Yale. Turns out it happened the way Carson said. Politico said Carson's camp admitted to them that he lied, then that turned out to be horsebleep.

If Carson stood up for someone who committed fraud, I don't think he has the moral authority to be POTUS (obviously, neither does Hilary). But given all the false accusations against him, I want to see if this one proves true.

If there's a speck of hypocrisy in there, I'd like you to point it out.

[PaulS]

Didn't he lie about talking to Westmoreland? He wasn't even in Detroit on Memorial Day weekend. Also, he lied about his relationship w/the supplement company.

Why does Hillary not have the moral authority not to be Pres.? Bc she said she was shot at by snipers?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

What does Bill have to do with Hillary's running for Pres?

Bill's cheating should not have been an issue (as sleazy as it is). In my opinion the impeachment hurt the Repub. (in a similiar fashion how Bengazi seems to have hurt them).

If Bill's character says nothing about Hilary, why does the character of Carson's friend say anything about Carson?

Hilary stuck up for Bill, to the point that she denied Bill cheated, but rather, claimed that the Republicans framed him. That statement makes her either a liar (if she knows her claim is false), or a lunatic (if she genuinely believes her claim).

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Also, he lied about his relationship w/the supplement company.

So far this one is likely the most problematic, but it's got a lot of competition.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Didn't he lie about talking to Westmoreland? He wasn't even in Detroit on Memorial Day weekend. Also, he lied about his relationship w/the supplement company.

Why does Hillary not have the moral authority not to be Pres.? Bc she said she was shot at by snipers?

"Didn't he lie about talking to Westmoreland?"

I don't know, I thought he got the date wrong.

"Why does Hillary not have the moral authority not to be Pres.? Bc she said she was shot at by snipers?[/"

That, and she said that Bill never cheated on her, but rather, he was being framed by the Republicans. If she truly believes that, she's far too stupid for the job.

What do you think about her claim thatthe GOP was framing Bill, as part of the "vast right wing conspiracy"?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So far this one is likely the most problematic, but it's got a lot of competition.

Again, how come lies only matter when told by Republicans?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Didn't he lie about talking to Westmoreland?"

I don't know, I thought he got the date wrong.That would be my initial reaction but he did say it was after the Memorial Day parade.

"Why does Hillary not have the moral authority not to be Pres.? Bc she said she was shot at by snipers?[/"

That, and she said that Bill never cheated on her, but rather, he was being framed by the Republicans. If she truly believes that, she's far too stupid for the job. I don't know anything about her statement denying his cheating but I think lots of spouses are in denial about their spouses cheating - similiar to how some are in denial about abuse.

What do you think about her claim thatthe GOP was framing Bill, as part of the "vast right wing conspiracy"?

Obviously he wasn't framed. Again, I believe his cheating should not have been an issue in the hearings - if someone wants to use that as part of how they view someone's moral character than it certainly is legitimate.

Edit - I question the use of the word scholarship bc I've never heard that word used when someone actually is admitted to WP (I know 2 people who went there). I can understand a 17 year old having talked to someone about going to WP using that word, but not a grown man. And he claimed he was offered one - not that someone said he prob. would be admitted and wouldn't have to incure any costs (which I think is prob. what happened - but I don't believe he said that).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Obviously he wasn't framed. Again, his cheating I believe his cheating should not have been an issue in the hearings - if someone wants to use that as part of how they view someone's moral than it certainly is legitimate.

"Obviously he wasn't framed"

True. But she stood in front of the cameras, and said he was framed by the vast right wing conspiracy. Which makes her either a liar, or delusional. If there's a third choice, what is it?

[buckman]

When you make mistakes in life, it sure would be good to have a true friend like Ben Carson .
If you were Hillary's friend, you just might have had an unfortunate accident
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

remember when Hillary tried to join the Marines in 1975....yeah...that was great.....

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Again, how come lies only matter when told by Republicans?

So you're admitting he's a liar? I'm not sure he is, actually he's probably a very honest guy. I'm just surprised you'd come right out and say it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

So you're admitting he's a liar? I'm not sure he is, actually he's probably a very honest guy. I'm just surprised you'd come right out and say it.

Nope. But you seem to be suggesting that if he did lie, that's pertinent to his qualifications.

"I'm not sure he is"


Are you sure Hilary is?

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

And if you're interested, it's not a fact. The church has rejected donations when principles were at stake. Sylvester Stallone, who claims to be Catholic, wanted one of his many weddings to be at St Patrick Cathedral in NYC, he offered to make a huge donation to the chirch if they agreed, they said no thanks.

The Catholic Church is very aggressive about raising money. Much of that money, goes to people in need. I don't see a lot of priests living in luxury, not in proportion to the hours they put in.

What religion are you, Dangles? How many hospitals, soup kitchens, schools, homeless shelters, does your church operate? It takes $$.

I am Catholic,just like you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I am Catholic,just like you.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Except you're proud to be pro abortion ... You wear it like a badge of courage , and it's anything but .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by buckman

Except you're proud to be pro abortion ... You wear it like a badge of courage , and it's anything but .
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I respect your right to believe otherwise.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

Pro-Choice does not equal Pro-Abortion. Your choice can be Life.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Who's pro-abortion?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[The Dad Fisherman]

I keep seeing the term inserted in arguments in place of the term Pro-Choice.....just making an observation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I keep seeing the term inserted in arguments in place of the term Pro-Choice.....just making an observation.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

just wondering...an observation...

how is pro-abortion....allowing someone to kill someone

and

pro-choice...allowing someone the choice whether or not to kill someone...

any different?...

again...just wondering