I'm Concerned About America(genuinely)

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Romney's remarks were right on, people always vote their pocket books and if they're getting something for free it's only human nature to keep it going.

Like my father who paid into Medicare and SS all his life now to be getting the benefits he was promised?

How is this "getting something for free"?

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Like my father who paid into Medicare and SS all his life now to be getting the benefits he was promised?

How is this "getting something for free"?

-spence

My kids won't have it unless something changes. Just tell your Dad about how promises are meant to be broken.... funny promises mean something now.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Like my father who paid into Medicare and SS all his life now to be getting the benefits he was promised?

How is this "getting something for free"?

-spence

Spence, you just don't get it. Romney clearly did not say (nor was he implying) that people who pay into SS and Medicare aren't entitled to those benefits. He was talking about people who pay no federal income taxes, yet continue to enjoy the benefits provided by federal services.

And even though Romney didn't say it, I'll say it. You dad, of course, is getting a lot of Medicare benefit for free. Why? Because (assuming he needs an average amount of medical care in old age, and assuming he had average income during his working years) he is getting astronomically more in benefits than he paid in premiums. The difference (and this is what liberals seem to struggle with) is paid for by people who are working today.

Either you don't get this, or you don't want to get it.

Let me use a bit of hyperbole to make a point. Let's say Medicare is aprogram where you pay $1 a year to the feds while working, and in return, you get free healthcare for life when you retire. Sounds great! No one would object to this. Except it does not work when you have a demographic avalance like the Baby Boomers - larger numbers of retirees, who live longer in retirement than previous retirees, and who will need significantly more expensive care than previous retirees.

Conservatives admit the plan is broken. Liberals say "watch out for those mean conservatives! They want old people to die in the street!"

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Like my father who paid into Medicare and SS all his life now to be getting the benefits he was promised?

How is this "getting something for free"?

-spence

Ask your Dad, would he rather have invested that SS money himself
over all these years or paid into the system that is going broke.
Spence, you are paying into it now and at your age when the time comes
it won't be there for you. But thanks anyway for contributing to my SS check.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

But thanks anyway for contributing to my SS check.

So I guess your one of the 47% then, right?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

So I guess your one of the 47% then, right?

Nope, I had no choice, I had to pay into it.
It's a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Nope, I had no choice, I had to pay into it.
It's a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme.

Medicare? Medicade?

If you aren't paying income tax, and are getting services, don't you fall into that category Romney outlined then?

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Medicare? Medicade?

Again not my choice, I had to pay into it and have to continue to pay into it.
It too will go broke soon. Go to any Doc's office and see how many patients there
are on Medicare. Go for a Cat scan or MRI and see how many grey heads
you count, then you'll know it is unsustainable.

401-k is a different story, I chose to go the route as it is tax free until you
withdraw. No brianer. If it were'nt for my 401-k , and all I had was SS I would be
on the bread line getting food stamps as part of the 47%.
Paying into a 401-k is an individual choice you make and along with it
comes personal responsibility. I like my independence and Freedom of Choice.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Nope, I had no choice, I had to pay into it.
It's a Pyramid/Ponzi scheme.

Jplug, you are in the group he was talking about, like it or not. How many of the 47% are in the same boat? Well, the answer is out there and it is about 10% of all Americans. Exclude those people and it is 37%. So what about his statement was actually true?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

So what about his statement was actually true?

Zim, zim zim -

- its true that Obama supporters believe the govt should be providing healthcare, home finacnce support, etc. Do you disagree? This is O's platform and what he drives for.

- its true Obama supporters believe in entitlement and that wealth should be distributed. Right?

- Its true that Obamas base will vote for him no matter what Romney says or does. Right?

What part of the above is not true and what part was not explicit in Romneys statement?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Zim, zim zim -

- its true that Obama supporters believe the govt should be providing healthcare, home finacnce support, etc. Do you disagree? This is O's platform and what he drives for.
Of course many Obama supporters believe that. As did Romney as governor. As did Reagan and Bush 1 and 2. They all included money for those things in their budgets. Not specifically providing healthcare, since that statement is misleading, but that medicare, government loans, etc. have value.

- its true Obama supporters believe in entitlement and that wealth should be distributed. Right?
Obama supporters believe that thre is a need for social protections. They believe in a progressive tax system, as has pretty much every president in the last 80 years. It isn't a question of redistributing wealth, even if Obama puts it that way. The sum of taxes have an enormous impact on the middle class and the poor. For an idiot like Romney to pretend that 47% of the country isn't affected by taxes is moronic. Especially when a guy like Romney makes tons of money off of profits that are only the level they are because of government subsidies in natural resources and ag. He would have much less money if it wasn't for the government or if all income was taxed at the same level. Or if his dad hadn't been on welfare
- Its true that Obamas base will vote for him no matter what Romney says or does. Right? Maybe. In the same way that the con bases isn't voting for Obama. But the Romney of Massachussetts would have had a better chance than the shape shifter psuedo-radical he has become to please the nutsos in the party.

What part of the above is not true and what part was not explicit in Romneys statement? It isn't remotely what he said

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it -- that that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. ... "

You said he was 100% correct. He was nearly entirely wrong. First off, the 47% who don't pay income tax, don't all vote for dems.
The entire 47% aren't dependent on government. Many of them are defending our country. Many of them are retired and payed their share. Many are students.

47% don't think the government has responsibility to care for them, although some people may think the government has a responsibility to help the poor.

47% don't believe they are entitled to health care, although some may think that everyone should have it for a variety of reasons.

He is factually incorrect and it is pandering to people too foolish to understanding he is scapegoating other Americans to get votes. "Your life would be so much better if it weren't for all these bloodsuckers bringing you down." The cons don't like when Sharpton does it, but the leaders of the repubes are surving on the same tactics. What Romney said was incorrect. It can be spun, be it isn't backed by facts or any semblance of truth.

[FishermanTim]

Originally Posted by spence

Like my father who paid into Medicare and SS all his life now to be getting the benefits he was promised?

How is this "getting something for free"?

-spence

It's not, but what about the millions of "undocument immigrants" that are given welfare benefits like they are giving out free samples at Costco?