In economic speech, Obama reveals true colors (and reveals he is insane)

[Jim in CT]

To the progressives/liberals here -

Let's consider the successful entrepeneur Obama is targeting with his rhetoric and proposed tax hikes. He's talking about folks whose taxable income is above $250,000. To get taxable income over $250,00, let's say your gross income is $300,000.

Here is my question to you. How much of that guy's income do you think it's reasonable for the government (federal, state, local) to confiscate in taxes? What percentage shuold that guy be able to keep?

I keep hearing liberals say "well, tax rates on the rich were more than 70% when Eisenhower was president, and the wealthy Americans got by OK...". Obama himself has used this argument. It's completely dishonest for 2 reasons. First, there were many loopholes and deductions then that don't exist today (for example, back in the day, credit card interest was a deduction), so that virtually no one payed that top rate. Second, other taxes exist today that didn't exist then. In CT, there was no state income tax then. Today, there is an average income tax of 5.5%. So we need to consider total tax burden.

I can't believe that anyone thinks that the public has a right to more than 40% of what anyone else makes.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

To the progressives/liberals here -

Let's consider the successful entrepeneur Obama is targeting with his rhetoric and proposed tax hikes. He's talking about folks whose taxable income is above $250,000. To get taxable income over $250,00, let's say your gross income is $300,000.

Here is my question to you. How much of that guy's income do you think it's reasonable for the government (federal, state, local) to confiscate in taxes? What percentage shuold that guy be able to keep?

I keep hearing liberals say "well, tax rates on the rich were more than 70% when Eisenhower was president, and the wealthy Americans got by OK...". Obama himself has used this argument. It's completely dishonest for 2 reasons. First, there were many loopholes and deductions then that don't exist today (for example, back in the day, credit card interest was a deduction), so that virtually no one payed that top rate. Second, other taxes exist today that didn't exist then. In CT, there was no state income tax then. Today, there is an average income tax of 5.5%. So we need to consider total tax burden.

I can't believe that anyone thinks that the public has a right to more than 40% of what anyone else makes.

You can include Alternative Minimum Tax to the list.....aka extortion

Governments cute little way to force you to work a little less, make less money and be less productive………

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Piscator

You can include Alternative Minimum Tax to the list.....aka extortion

Governments cute little way to force you to work a little less, make less money and be less productive………

exactly. Also, take into account that many deductions or benefits taxpayers get are reduced the more % you make. For example - parents can take a % of 5k for daycare while they work. but the more $$ you make the % gets less and less. Resulting in a higher % of tax paid aka rate. There are many examples of this. All of which are not captured when you discuss tax rates. Rates are one component.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

exactly. Also, take into account that many deductions or benefits taxpayers get are reduced the more % you make. For example - parents can take a % of 5k for daycare while they work. but the more $$ you make the % gets less and less. Resulting in a higher % of tax paid aka rate. There are many examples of this. All of which are not captured when you discuss tax rates. Rates are one component.

We have been down this road before. The effective tax rates across the board are about as low now as any time in the last 70 years. That takes into account all deductions, loopholes, etc. It is all taxes paid divided by gross income. People can look into it. This link only goes 1979 to 2007, but the numbers haven't changed much in the last 5 years, but one could look it up here http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...edtaxrates.pdf if they wanted.

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

It understand it FEELS good to complain about taxes being so much higher today, but the facts don't back it up.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

We have been down this road before. The effective tax rates across the board are about as low now as any time in the last 70 years. That takes into account all deductions, loopholes, etc. It is all taxes paid divided by gross income. People can look into it. This link only goes 1979 to 2007, but the numbers haven't changed much in the last 5 years, but one could look it up here http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...edtaxrates.pdf if they wanted.

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

It understand it FEELS good to complain about taxes being so much higher today, but the facts don't back it up.

zimmy if you saw what I pay in taxes you'd crap your pants. the % is significantly higher than the average taxpayer.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

zimmy if you saw what I pay in taxes you'd crap your pants. the % is significantly higher than the average taxpayer.

I feel your pain. How do you think I feel as a business owner when you include all the other taxes I'm required to pay in addition to income tax? Touched almost 50% when I did all the math out a couple years ago.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

zimmy if you saw what I pay in taxes you'd crap your pants. the % is significantly higher than the average taxpayer.

If your income is 68000 and up, your total state, local, fed, was almost certainly between 28.3 and 30.4 percent. I am not sure what assumptions you have about my tax situation, but I can almost guarentee you it isn't very different than yours and is one of the highest as a percent based on total effective rates. I still believe people whine way too much about taxes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

If your income is 68000 and up, your total state, local, fed, was almost certainly between 28.3 and 30.4 percent. I am not sure what assumptions you have about my tax situation, but I can almost guarentee you it isn't very different than yours and is one of the highest as a percent based on total effective rates. I still believe people whine way too much about taxes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

try 45%

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I still believe people whine way too much about taxes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You live in CT, and you don't think taxes are a problem? Do you work for the government in some way?

State income tax is north of 5%, state sales tax is 6%(I think), town property taxes are among the highest in the nation, most towns charge a 'car tax' that doesn't exist in most states, UCONN costs more than $20,000 for in-state tuition.

And for all that, our state has the highest debt-per-citizen in the nation, when you consider unfunded liabilities for public workers' retirement and healthcare benefits.

We have high taxes, and still manage to drastically overspend. Nope, nothing to see here. Keep voting liberal...

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I still believe people whine way too much about taxes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

This nation was founded on whining about taxes, taxes that were much, much lower than those being "whined" about now. So were the Founders wrong? They might have been if it was merely taxes that they whined about. But it was not merely taxes. It was principle. They were willing to pay taxes if they had a say in how much and for what. To merely pay taxes at the whim of a magesterial government broke faith with a principle by which they had created a better life than that from which their forefathers had escaped. It was a better life than the common man in the mother country across the sea was living. It was a fledgling principle of freedom that created that better life. Of individual liberty within a society that respected and promoted that principle. They recognized the intrusion of taxes against their will not so much as an incursion on their wealth, though that too, but as such against their liberty. And their violent adherence to that principle of liberty inspired not only the creation of this country, but a worldwide movement against tyranny. That battle still exists, and will probably always exist.

Just so, in our still colonial way, it exists in America. The Tories don't mind the power of the king, or president, or government . . . take your pick. So long as their life is comfortable all is well. The form and size of government, the Constitution, the power of our magistrates . . . those are merely incidental . . . so long as we are comfortable.

The rebels understand that life, existence, flows in the direction that various principles and laws lead. That comfort is relative to the freedom to achieve it. That comfort given from higher powers is not dependable and can be taken or limited. That comfort earned, fought for, and created and protected by the hands of the comforted is more durable. And the principle that leads in the direction of the latter is liberty.

What many who "whine too much about taxes" are doing is verbally rebelling not so much about the taxes, but about the tyranny of their imposition.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

We have been down this road before. The effective tax rates across the board are about as low now as any time in the last 70 years. That takes into account all deductions, loopholes, etc. It is all taxes paid divided by gross income. People can look into it. This link only goes 1979 to 2007, but the numbers haven't changed much in the last 5 years, but one could look it up here http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...edtaxrates.pdf if they wanted.

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

It understand it FEELS good to complain about taxes being so much higher today, but the facts don't back it up.

Most states did not have an income tax before. Many states did not have sales taxes. Most towns did not have car taxes before (here in CT, I pay my town $900 a year in "car tax" for my 3 year old minivan and my 6 year old Accord).

We need to look at TOTAL tax rates. That's what really matters. I presume you chose not to look at total tax rates, because doing so would refute the point you were making...

Zimmy, Johnny D says his rate touched 50% recently. How does that fit into your data?