American Intervention in Libya

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by GattaFish

Nebe,,, no disrespect but China gets WAAAAAAAY more oil from Libya than we do,,,

true, although i did not know that. Something to consider is this- China owns a ton of our debt. We pretty much cant pay it back. China has nukes pointed at us. China has us by the balls pretty much. They tolerate us because we buy all the crap they make.. but what China wants, China gets. Guess who got first dibs into the Iraqi oil fields after we cleared up the mess a few years ago... You would think we would have as we did all the work right?? NOPE.

[striperman36]

china owns 1.2 trillion in US bonds.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by striperman36

china owns 1.2 trillion in US bonds.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

Right. That is one way that we fund our national debt. What happens when they want to cash them in?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[striperman36]

it's a little scary that's like 20 pct of the chinese gdp and it's on like 1 - 2 pct of the US GDP.

And reduce their #2 trading partner to a junk bond dealer?

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Right. That is one way that we fund our national debt. What happens when they want to cash them in?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Treasury bond prices will drop sharply (on the selling pressure), driving bond yields (the percentage discount to maturity) sharply up.

As these notes are denominated in U.S. dollars, the massive flood of U.S. government bond selling will weaken the dollar (even though yields/interest rates are going up).

We will have a double whammy of high interest rates (which will choke off borrowing and therefore slow the economy down) and massive inflation on whatever we have to import, like oil.

So, imagine getting a mortgage at 30%, or a credit card at 50% APR.

Then, paying $20 a gallon for gas, and God knows what for food and healthcare.

It will be a disaster of epic proportions, and we have our government and ourselves to blame for this.

Unless we swap California for our outstanding debts. LOL.

You might be interested to know that China is already trying to sell or trade its U.S. bond holdings for tangible assets (like oilfields and shipping companies).

[Bronko]

The only way to make these problems go away is to host another giant tribute to Mowtown at the Whitehouse and then shoot out the back door to play another round of golf.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by fishpoopoo

Treasury bond prices will drop sharply (on the selling pressure), driving bond yields (the percentage discount to maturity) sharply up.

As these notes are denominated in U.S. dollars, the massive flood of U.S. government bond selling will weaken the dollar (even though yields/interest rates are going up).

We will have a double whammy of high interest rates (which will choke off borrowing and therefore slow the economy down) and massive inflation on whatever we have to import, like oil.

So, imagine getting a mortgage at 30%, or a credit card at 50% APR.

Then, paying $20 a gallon for gas, and God knows what for food and healthcare.

It will be a disaster of epic proportions, and we have our government and ourselves to blame for this.

Unless we swap California for our outstanding debts. LOL.

You might be interested to know that China is already trying to sell or trade its U.S. bond holdings for tangible assets (like oilfields and shipping companies).

but....that would screw china as well since we're one of their biggest customers. They wouldnt gain from it.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

but....that would screw china as well since we're one of their biggest customers. They wouldnt gain from it.

Not for long. As other nations westernize like India, and china, we will become less important.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Not for long. As other nations westernize like India, and china, we will become less important.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Those countries have higher standards, dont underestimate our dependancy on plastic garbage.

[fishpoopoo]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

but....that would screw china as well since we're one of their biggest customers. They wouldnt gain from it.

Yes, but that doesn't address the main issue that their $1 trillion + in treasury holdings, denominated in U.S. dollars, is losing value, and there is no way we are ever going to pay them back.

Over the long run, there are those who believe that China's emerging middle class (about 300 MM right now) will being to consume more stuff. They are going to be the world's biggest customers.

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by Nebe

true, although i did not know that. Something to consider is this- China owns a ton of our debt. We pretty much cant pay it back. China has nukes pointed at us. China has us by the balls pretty much. They tolerate us because we buy all the crap they make.. but what China wants, China gets. Guess who got first dibs into the Iraqi oil fields after we cleared up the mess a few years ago... You would think we would have as we did all the work right?? NOPE.

agreed,,,,, I still think we need to take the back burner on this one,,,

[JohnR]

I think the Euros should do this one. Their backyard. Lets see if they can accomplish ANYTHING on their own beyond pontificating and having the USA do the heavy work.

Originally Posted by Nebe

true, although i did not know that. Something to consider is this- China owns a ton of our debt. We pretty much cant pay it back. China has nukes pointed at us. China has us by the balls pretty much. They tolerate us because we buy all the crap they make.. but what China wants, China gets. Guess who got first dibs into the Iraqi oil fields after we cleared up the mess a few years ago... You would think we would have as we did all the work right?? NOPE.

China has us by the shorties because we allow them too.

China owns a ton of our debt but rash moves on their part can weaken them as well. Pretty bad for a drugdealer to slash his dopers throats for less than significant gain. Any precipitous slide could wreak havoc on them too. They have our debt because we pay for their expansion with our spending, we allow our government to spend more than we take in and China buys a big peace of it. One day, they will decide they can perhaps survive a crash enough by taking us down financially. We will be SunTzu'd.

China Nukes: Would be a problem for us, it would be all over for them. There is a significant imbalance here - in our favor (will, on the other hand).

Iraq oil fields - yes, China got 'em. Remember all the ranting on how Bush did it just for the oil? Such a clamor that they had to backtrack and allow "anyone" to go in and purchase rights. Kinda wish the Bush Admin was a little more unilateral now, eh?