More on public unions - New Haven police

[Fly Rod]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;839470]"Have you ever given back a pay raise "

Never gave back a pay raise, I earned every one of them. My first raise was in 1969, my boss gave me .10 per hr. more and he made it a point when he gave me my paycheck to say, "Don't think that I made a mistake in your paycheck, I gave you ten cents more an hour."

From reading all your past post you seem like a bitter person, maybe you feel you are owed something.

"I take it you have never owned your own business. Because if an employee isn't pulling his weight, or if a business is struggling, not everyone can get a raise. If the money isn't there, you can't spend it. I guess that's too complex for you."

I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007, built the last new house for myself, no mortgage. Allowed me to fly fish around the country and in Canada and allowed me to have a little retreat in the Bahamas for a few years. Given out pay raises when deserved, fired people when needed. 1990ish recession, " you probably do not know anything about that," laid off all but two employees as work slowed, almost went bankrupt too, bounced back and enjoyed life once again. Gave up the business due to illness in 2007. Now I'm in a more lucrative business, real estate, with the wife but, my illness is starting to take its toll once again.


"Fly Rod, what about my post here? What do you think about a cop telling the citizens to arm themselves?"

Look at the source, a union president, all rhetoric. No cop has to tell me to arm myself, I'm armed. Tell me, when was the last time a cop prevented a rape, a bank robbery or murder? They always get there after the fact. Arm yourself. Being a Marine I would think you are armed.

[Jim in CT]

[QUOTE=Fly Rod;839549]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Have you ever given back a pay raise "

Never gave back a pay raise, I earned every one of them. My first raise was in 1969, my boss gave me .10 per hr. more and he made it a point when he gave me my paycheck to say, "Don't think that I made a mistake in your paycheck, I gave you ten cents more an hour."

From reading all your past post you seem like a bitter person, maybe you feel you are owed something.

"I take it you have never owned your own business. Because if an employee isn't pulling his weight, or if a business is struggling, not everyone can get a raise. If the money isn't there, you can't spend it. I guess that's too complex for you."

I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007, built the last new house for myself, no mortgage. Allowed me to fly fish around the country and in Canada and allowed me to have a little retreat in the Bahamas for a few years. Given out pay raises when deserved, fired people when needed. 1990ish recession, " you probably do not know anything about that," laid off all but two employees as work slowed, almost went bankrupt too, bounced back and enjoyed life once again. Gave up the business due to illness in 2007. Now I'm in a more lucrative business, real estate, with the wife but, my illness is starting to take its toll once again.


"Fly Rod, what about my post here? What do you think about a cop telling the citizens to arm themselves?"

Look at the source, a union president, all rhetoric. No cop has to tell me to arm myself, I'm armed. Tell me, when was the last time a cop prevented a rape, a bank robbery or murder? They always get there after the fact. Arm yourself. Being a Marine I would think you are armed.

Sorry, I wasn't asking you if you gave back a pay raise, I was quoting you...yuo said that in your previous post.

"you seem like a bitter person"

Perhaps. I'm tired of watching the "gimme gimme" entitlement mindset of public employees, that's for sure.

"maybe you feel you are owed something."

What, exactly, did I post, that you could possibly interpret that way? All I want is to keep a reasonable percentage of my earnings so I can provide for my kids. And I want the govt to leave us alone, not cripple us with taxes.

"Given out pay raises when deserved, fired people when needed. "

Hold on. You said, in your above post, that everyone deserves a cost-of-living increase. But you fired your emlpoyees that weren't good at their jobs! I'm saying that public employees should be held to the same standard, but they are not. How many public schoolteachers get fired for incompetence? I've literally never heard of it. Here in CT, teachers only get fired for sexual assault...never for being bad at their jobs. The union won't allow that to happen.

"Being a Marine I would think you are armed"

Nope, I've personally had my fill with guns, I hope to never hold one again... But if I took this cop's advice and armed myself, why the f**k should I continue to pay property taxes? If this cop says that he's not going to do his job, and therefore I have to do it myself, why should he continue to get paid?

I also built a few spec houses (4 to be exact), and I loved it. Even now, when I have a bad day, I'll drive by those houses, and I get a pretty good feeling when I see the kids, growing up, getting older, playing in the yards...it's nice knowing you did something tangible, I guess. It's nice knowing that families will be living in those houses, kids growing up there, long after I'm dead and gone. I wish I got into that business before the market turned white-hot, but it was not to be. I'd sure like to get back into it when that market turns around.

[Jim in CT]

Fly Rod -

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

But the unions don't want to hear it. Even though the economy is bad, even though tax revenues are down, even though many are unemployed, they still want to get paid as if it were the roaring 1920's.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Fly Rod -
But the unions don't want to hear it. Even though the economy is bad, even though tax revenues are down, even though many are unemployed, they still want to get paid as if it were the roaring 1920's.

Because that is the nature of the beast. In a bad economy thier jobs become much more dangerous. Crime goes up, the persons you interact with are far more violent, desperate, and so on, the number of calls for serviceincrease exponentially. I always said policing was a growth industry. So why when officers, or firefighters are at thier busiest are they suppose to consider cutting thier pay? Cut thier pay but noth thier responsibilties, not. You wouldn't, and its BS about I have to find someone willing to absord my request for more money. City councilors negotiate new contracts all the time and the town meeting votes them up or down. I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. The town I live in just held a debt exclusion election to see if the TAXPAYERS will build a new school and a new senior center. They overwhelmingly voted in favor of both projects. Need the school but not the senior center.

I know one thing, you get more from a cop or a firefighter than an insurance company. Cops do not raise thier rates if you deal with them more often.
You are beating to death this issue and surpisingly enough not meeting with many others who suffer the same angst. Like Jesse Jackson turned racism into a self-supporting industry you are trying to do the same witth this.

One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well. And from what you say about public employees in Ct., especially the cops, I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Because that is the nature of the beats. In a bad economy thiers jobs become much more dangerous. Crime goes up, the persons you interact with are more violent, and so on. I always said policing was a growth industry. So why when officers, or firefighters are at thier busiest are they suppose to consider cutting thier pay? I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. The town just held a debt exclusion election to see if the TAXPAYERS will build a new school and a new senior center. They overwhelmingly voted in favor of both projects.

You are beating to death this issue and surpisingly enough not meeting with many others who suffer the same angst. Like Jesse Jackson turned racism into a self-supporting industry you are trying to do the same witth this.

One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well. And from what you say about public employees in Ct., especially the cops, I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you.

"I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. "

If my taxes are taken so that teachers can avoid eating cat food, then I have no problem paying them. If my taxes are increased so that teachers/cops can cling to ridiculoues benefits, that's something else. And that's what is happening.

"One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well"

I don't see the point, but OK, they pay taxes as well. They are paying themselves to an extent, so obviously their taxes will go up as thie compensation increases, but they are still better off.

Swimmer, I have asked a certain question sevarel times, which no one tried to answer. Maybe you can give it a shot?

Why is society better off if cops/teachers get benefitys that dwarf anything available in the private sector? I know why the cops and teachers are better off, that's obvious. But why does that help everyone?

"I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you"

I'm pretty comfortable, I'm an actuary and I own a great small business on the side buying gold. That's not the point. Unlike most people who engage in this debate, I'm not worried about myself, I'm worried about others who are struggling to keep up with surging property taxes, which could be reduced significantly if public employees would join the rest of us in the real world.

[Fly Rod]

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

You are a dweller, you like to carry on and on and on.

Apparently you did not read through the third paragraph.

BYE!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

You are a dweller, you like to carry on and on and on.

Apparently you did not read through the third paragraph.

BYE!

You're right, I missed that part. I know all about that recession. OK, you said you laid off all but 2 employees when things were slow. So why can't I do the same thing with MY employees, which are the public workers? My salary is a bit less than it was 3 years ago, so why can't I do what you did, and tell my employees (teachers/cops) that they need to feel the pain, too? Every economist I have ever geard has said that this recession is worse than the one in 1991. So why can't I ask my employees (cops and teachers) to make the same kinds of sactrifices you asked your employees to make? Can't wait to hear your answer to that one.

Geez, you just don't get it. What I'm saying is, I should have the same authority to do what you did when times were tough. If you had to retain all of your employees, and give them a COLA raise every year (which YOU said they were entitled to), you might not have been able to bounce back.

you're saying that even though YOU allowed yourself to take necessary, drastic actions when times were tough, that public employees should be immune from such market forces. I'd love to know why you think that.

And as property taxes go through the roof, and as state governments tax and regulate businesses more and more, and as iberals talk more and more about how evil "wealth" is, it gets a lot harder for the next generation (me) to enjoy the same awesome success you had.

FlyRod, the financial crisis staring all of us in the face (which my generation did not cause, but we will sure feel the brunt of fixing) is every bit as bad as the crisis you dealt with in the 1990's, when you laid off most of your folks. How would you have reacted if your staff said "no, you can't lay any of us off. On top of that, we want small raises, and we want fat pensions and cheap healthcare. And we aren't working one second more than 40 hours per week. And FlyRod, if you have to get a second job, or sell your house, to meet these demands, that's OK with us". FlyRod, if a politician sided with your employees and put all that into a law that you had to live with, I bet you wouldn't like it. But that's precisely what these unions are doing to all of us.

Go ahead, tell me where I'm wrong, please.

And I pray you feel better!!