Anyone following what's going on in Wisconsin?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"The dems are doing what their voter-base wants."

BBut why do liberals, unless they are in a union, want to be taxed into oblivion so that a few folks can get rich?

I'd love anyone here who supports the union workers, to answer ONE question...Given the economic situation where are all on, how can unionized employees complain about paying less than half of what everyone else pays? Why do unionized employees deserve such preferential treatment.

Unless specifically stated, everything below is just my opinion from observations and educated guesswork. This is going to be a long one, so sorry in advance.

I believe there are two main groups in play that contribute to the large number of people that are supporting the unions:
1. The "What about the children?" group. This group (I'm speculating) consists of your cliche 'bleeding-heart liberals', non-property owners and, to be expected, people with children.
These people feel as though teachers make major sacrifices in their lives "because they care about the kids." They don't look at the big picture - in some areas (like WI) teachers are paid less than average *but* receive killer benefits, the pension, shorter work days and other contract-dictated protections.

2. The anti-establishment group. These are your typical Democrat that believes Unions protect 'the little guy'. My guess is that this group consists mostly of middle income people, may or may not own a home or younger folks especially college age or just after college. This group believes that the towns (and all businesses) will abuse the little guy at ever chance they can get. The mindset of these people is (and this was actually said to me yesterday when I told them I'm anti-Union): "Well, I hope you get stuck in some non-Union job in the private sector and your boss walks in one day and tells everyone they are cutting pay by 50% across the board." When I asked for an example of this ever happening, I was told "You just don't get it."
Essentially, I consider this group misguided. They have a philosophical difference from me. To argue with them and try to change their opinion would be as futile as debating with someone why my religion is better than yours. Unless there is an epiphany, philosophical differences won't be resolved.

There are a few commonalities between both these groups. They are small picture type of people, tunnel-visioned on only the exact subject at hand without looking at the broader ramifications. They don't think "how are we going to pay for this?". They don't understand why using today's employees to pay yesteryear's retirees
is unsustainable. More likely than not, they don't understand how a pension works or what the dollar-value is on the Cadillac plans these Unions argue for.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Another thing Johnny? I know you have the respect of many here (including me), and I know you own your own business. If your employees got together and said "Johnny, we demand that you give us pensions for life, and we're only willing to pay 0.2% of the cost, so you pay the other 99.8%. We also want health insurance, wnd we're only willing to pay 6% of the cost, so you pay the other 94%">

Could you absorb that cost? Would you be able to pass that cost onto your customers? I didn't catch what type of business you own, so maybe it's not applicable to you, but I'm curious...

I don't deserve any more respect than the next guy.

To your question, I'd fire all of them. Done. Looking at that large an increase in overhead, I'd keep only my managerial staff and subcontract all the other positions because it would be cheaper. Then I'd tell the staff remaining that if they wanted to pull that crap, they're the next ones gone. Legal? Very questionable, but it sure as hell would get the point across. Most of my staff gets paid better and with more schedule flexibility (8hr day inc. paid lunch, rarely a 'no' if they ask to leave early, never asked to try to come in during bad weather) than any of my competitors pay and they know it.

Loyalty and paying for high quality and excellent service has gone away in my industry. As such, any additional costs have to be absorbed.

[scottw]

[QUOTE=JohnnyD;837903]Unless specifically stated, everything below is just my opinion from observations and educated guesswork. This is going to be a long one, so sorry in advance.

I believe there are two main groups in play that contribute to the large number of people that are supporting the unions:


one more...politicians that are afraid of losing their base of support or having them show up on the lawn of their home terrorizing their family.....great analysis JD

hey, there was a story here yesterday of an ambulance co. that was having to lay off a slew of workers because of reductions in either medicare or medicaid reimbursements, can't remember which...are you affected by cuts like those with your operation?

[Jim in CT]

File this under the category of "you cannot make this up".

Turns out the 14 Democratic senators who fled the state (remember, they fled the state because they were opposed to these union cuts) are staying in a hotel in Illinois.

THEY ARE STAYING IN A NON-UNION HOTEL.

In other words, when these azzholes are spending their own money, they have no intention of absorbing the cost of insane union demands. But these SAME JERKS think all of the taxpayers should be forced to pay that which these clowns won't pay themselves.

Nancy Peolisi is siding with the unions. Nancy Pelosi owns vineyards and hotels in California, zero of which are unionozed.

And I get criticized for saying liberalism is a mental disorder.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

one more...politicians that are afraid of losing their base of support or having them show up on the lawn of their home terrorizing their family.....great analysis JD

Honestly, I don't even bother considering politicians. They will do/say whatever they need to in order to appease their voting base. None of them have any backbones... not a single one.

hey, there was a story here yesterday of an ambulance co. that was having to lay off a slew of workers because of reductions in either medicare or medicaid reimbursements, can't remember which...are you affected by cuts like those with your operation?

Haven't been on an ambulance in almost 2 years. I keep my emt credentials current, do continuing education and things like that as a fallback plan should anything happen with my company. Turnover is typically high at ambulance companies so it's pretty easy to find a job with at least one of the 4-5 companies in the area.

Costs me up to $500/year to keep my credentials current and 50 hours of classroom time but I consider it a small price to pay to have a fall back plan should the s#$% hit the fan and I need new employment or to pick up a second job.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Honestly, I don't even bother considering politicians. They will do/say whatever they need to in order to appease their voting base. None of them have any backbones... not a single one.


Haven't been on an ambulance in almost 2 years. I keep my emt credentials current, do continuing education and things like that as a fallback plan should anything happen with my company. Turnover is typically high at ambulance companies so it's pretty easy to find a job with at least one of the 4-5 companies in the area.

Costs me up to $500/year to keep my credentials current and 50 hours of classroom time but I consider it a small price to pay to have a fall back plan should the s#$% hit the fan and I need new employment or to pick up a second job.

oh, I was under the impression that your company was an ambulance co.

[Fly Rod]

"Assault on the unions." spoken once again from a great intellect.

Guess who.

Here is a hint: Spoke out aganist Cambridge police.

He can not balance his own budget, why would he want to speak out aganist the Gov. of Wiscosin?

On another note, It is illegal for teachers and firemen to be protesting on strike in Wisconsin. Fire any teachers or firemen that do not have a letter from their doctor stating that they were sick.

No school, "they really are in it for the kids." Oh really.

Governor and legislators should hang tuff.