Raising Arizona: No MA listed?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by mosholu

You do not know whether they do not speak English until you stop them which is the problem. The causation of the the stop is the issue. If someone has make a traffic violation I think I agree with most of the other poster that you should have the ability to check their immigration status. If you are going to stop them because they look like illegals i.e. hispanic or asian where does it stop. Can police pull over and stop Italians or people who look Italian because the Mafia is all Italian.
That being said I would not mind having a citizen id card issued like the passport card. This way there would be no excuse by employers for saying they were not able to effectively check who they were hiring. Anyone who hires an illegal should pay treble the current fines.

Like I said, it's not politically correct, but profiling sure as hell is more efficient. A cop told me once "if I followed you for 5 minutes, I could come up with half a dozen legal reasons to pull you over." If they want to pull you over, they'll find a reason and be able to support it. That's not even taking into consideration that Boarder Patrol Agents, from what I understand (and I'll have to look it up again) aren't limited by the same probable cause situations as your town cop might be.

Example: New Mexico, AZ or Cali police pose as a small contractor in need of day-labor and drive to the local Home Depot or Lowes. They drive up then corral the multiple people standing outside trying to get a job for the day. The officer asks for their identification to check them for warrants and confirm their immigration status. Chances are pretty damn good (so good that I'd give 5:1 odds to anyone who disagrees) that at least one of them is here illegally.

Just to re-emphasize, I'm not saying profiling is pleasant or even fair, but removing bias and utilizing data to create profiles would be the most efficient method of enforcement.

[Raven]

i guess i'll get a Sombrero and drive around....

the mandatory checkpoints i spoke of were for vehicle emissions
(on the spot inspections) dmv sniffer rigs... in Cali

with the Porosity of the Southern Border including the many Tunnels and the fact Canada has plenty of holes too into Maine...ect. there's plenty of Opportunities for Bad guys to get into this country from groups whose only purpose is to Harm Americans in the name of their cause.

From that standpoint, i suppose it's necessary for security since the shift is now from large scale operations to small scale seems to be the new way.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Raven

i guess i'll get a Sombrero and drive around....

the mandatory checkpoints i spoke of were for vehicle emissions
(on the spot inspections) dmv sniffer rigs... in Cali

with the Porosity of the Southern Border including the many Tunnels and the fact Canada has plenty of holes too into Maine...ect. there's plenty of Opportunities for Bad guys to get into this country from groups whose only purpose is to Harm Americans in the name of their cause.

From that standpoint, i suppose it's necessary for security since the shift is now from large scale operations to small scale seems to be the new way.

The Boarder Patrol sets up similar checkpoints on highways in areas that border Mexico. Just like trying to cross the boarder... drive up, give them your ID and they decide if they want to further inspect you or not.

Just as ever Muslim is more scrutinized by people around them when they travel by plane (and that is undeniable), every Hispanic is going to me more scrutinized in border states. It's just more efficient. Until Europeans that want to enter the country illegally start funneling through Mexico en masse, there's no denying the effectiveness of questioning the group of non-English speaking guys standing outside a hardware store begging for work more than the Asian wearing a suit and driving a Mercedes.

Unfortunately, this entire country is so race-sensitive and dictated by Politically Correctness that the most effective security measure for this country must yield to the PR whores. Hell, I'm surprised I haven't been called a racist yet.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Unfortunately, this entire country is so race-sensitive and dictated by Politically Correctness that the most effective security measure for this country must yield to the PR whores.

ahhhh, yes..political correctness..

Lieberman, Collins: FBI and Pentagon could have stopped the Fort Hood shootings

By Joseph I. Lieberman and Susan M. Collins
Friday, February 4, 2011; 12:00 AM

Maj. Nidal Hasan, accused in the murders of 13 people and the attempted murders of 32 others in the shooting spree at Fort Hood, Tex., in November 2009, appears to be the toughest kind of terrorist to spot: a lone wolf who plots without the overt support of domestic cells or foreign sponsors.

Still, the attack did not come as a complete surprise to some in the Army and the FBI, and that makes this incident all the more tragic.

Our Senate committee's 14-month investigation of the Fort Hood killings has concluded that the Department of Defense and the FBI "collectively had sufficient information to have detected Hasan's radicalization to violent Islamist extremism but failed both to understand and to act on it."

The deaths at Fort Hood could and should have been prevented. The Defense Department's failure to acknowledge the threat of violent Islamist extremism within its ranks, coupled with organizational and communication flaws in the FBI's counterterrorism operations, contributed to the tragedy.

At various times while stationed at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Hasan, a psychiatrist, openly expressed his beliefs that suicide bombings were justified, that U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan were wars against Islam, that Muslim Americans in the U.S. military might engage in fratricide against their comrades and that his loyalty to his religion was greater than his sworn obligation as a military officer to support and defend the Constitution.

Some of Hasan's colleagues complained about these statements. Two fellow officers described him as "a ticking time bomb." But astonishingly, Hasan's commanders took no action against him. They gave various excuses for this, including an outrageously misguided argument that Hasan's radical statements provided insights into violent Islamist extremism that could benefit our military. Rather than discipline or discharge him, Hasan's superiors sanitized his personnel evaluations so that evidence of his radicalization was praised as research on terrorism and Islam.


Lieberman, Collins: FBI and Pentagon could have stopped the Fort Hood shootings

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Like I said, it's not politically correct, but profiling sure as hell is more efficient. A cop told me once "if I followed you for 5 minutes, I could come up with half a dozen legal reasons to pull you over." If they want to pull you over, they'll find a reason and be able to support it. That's not even taking into consideration that Boarder Patrol Agents, from what I understand (and I'll have to look it up again) aren't limited by the same probable cause situations as your town cop might be.

Example: New Mexico, AZ or Cali police pose as a small contractor in need of day-labor and drive to the local Home Depot or Lowes. They drive up then corral the multiple people standing outside trying to get a job for the day. The officer asks for their identification to check them for warrants and confirm their immigration status. Chances are pretty damn good (so good that I'd give 5:1 odds to anyone who disagrees) that at least one of them is here illegally.

Just to re-emphasize, I'm not saying profiling is pleasant or even fair, but removing bias and utilizing data to create profiles would be the most efficient method of enforcement.

In addition to checking the multiple people who are standing around why not have the police follow these people to their employers and then the employers could be arrested/fined for violating FAIR because those employers have employed workers and have not checked to see if these people were legal or not. I am all for enforcing immigration laws against those that violate them but it should be applied equally to the workers and those who benefit from using illegal workers.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by mosholu

In addition to checking the multiple people who are standing around why not have the police follow these people to their employers and then the employers could be arrested/fined for violating FAIR because those employers have employed workers and have not checked to see if these people were legal or not. I am all for enforcing immigration laws against those that violate them but it should be applied equally to the workers and those who benefit from using illegal workers.

I couldn't agree more. Ship the illegals home and fine the crap out of the businesses.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I couldn't agree more. Ship the illegals home and fine the crap out of the businesses.

Chipotle Mexican Grill has a lot going for it — an upscale burrito concept, a hip and eco-friendly image, expansion plans galore and a 500 percent-plus stock price gain in just over two years.
And then it has something not going its way — a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

Chipotle Mexican Grill has a lot going for it — an upscale burrito concept, a hip and eco-friendly image, expansion plans galore and a 500 percent-plus stock price gain in just over two years.
And then it has something not going its way — a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

Wages are the #1 expense for many small businesses. If I could cut my wage expenses in half, resulting in me not having to pay nearly as much in state/fed/insurance/unemployment/disability taxes.... yeah, my profits would be wayyyy up too.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Wages are the #1 expense for many small businesses. If I could cut my wage expenses in half, resulting in me not having to pay nearly as much in state/fed/insurance/unemployment/disability taxes.... yeah, my profits would be wayyyy up too.

Obama just said that if you become more energy efficient as a business and green that you can use the savings to hire more employees regardless if you actually have any work for those employees to perform, it's for the good of the nation...of course, he also forgot that he told us that under his plan the cost of energy will necessarily skyrocket.. sooooo you might possibly break even if you are lucky...but still hire more employees that you don't need because it's for the good of the nation....aaaaand...him....aaaand.....be energy efficient...like him...and eat healthy and don't smoke aaaaaand....whatever

[spence]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

a federal crackdown on its immigrant labor force that has so far forced Chipotle to fire hundreds of allegedly illegal workers in the state of Minnesota, perhaps more than half its staff there.

Good point, it would seem that the Obama Admin is taking immigration prosecution pretty seriously. There was a report out a few weeks ago on this...

While the punditry is throwing mud, the Feds are making progress.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Good point, it would seem that the Obama Admin is taking immigration prosecution pretty seriously. There was a report out a few weeks ago on this...

While the punditry is throwing mud, the Feds are making progress.

-spence

BS...and the unemployment rate is 9%