this mosque thing is blowin up for Barry

[buckman]

Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Do you really believe it is the right wing pundits that are stirring up anti Islamic sentiment, or maybe we could put the blame where it belongs....on the Muslims that commit these cowardly crimes. God forbid you blame the Islamic radicals for their actions.
Just a question... does anyone know if there is a plan for a shrine or tribute to those killed being planned in this "community center" I would guess no.

You're blending up a lot of issues into a sticky mess.

There's a very vocal part of the Right wing in this country that's absolutely anti-Islam. Of this I don't think there can be much debate. You also have a punditry who will use "tolerance" issues to attack Liberals in the political area for short-term gain.

There's also plenty of condemnation for acts of "terrorism" all around. I'd note that you say the "Muslims" that commit these crimes and not the "terrorists" that commit this crimes?

As for a shrine, once again you're lumping terrorists with mainstream Muslims. It's almost as if you believe they should feel guilty for 9/11.

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence

ahh - see how you are blinded? No wants to "take away their rights". We have religious freedom, but we alos have freedom of speech. Is it wrong for people to question and react to this?
People believe it is insensitive to do this in that area.
I would think Muslims would understand, no? I mean they (and this is NOT RADICALS) have made death threats for cartoon artisits and writers. they require their woman to cover their faces. they must undertstand emotions, no?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

ahh - see how you are blinded?

No.

No wants to "take away their rights".

Sure they do. Some want to take away their "right" to move forward with their "already approved permits" simply because of their religion.

We have religious freedom, but we alos have freedom of speech. Is it wrong for people to question and react to this?

People obviously have the right to their opinion...it becomes an issue when it impacts the freedoms of others.

People believe it is insensitive to do this in that area.
I would think Muslims would understand, no? I mean they (and this is NOT RADICALS) have made death threats for cartoon artisits and writers. they require their woman to cover their faces. they must undertstand emotions, no?

To do what? Live? Pray? Exercise?

Should we declare Manhatten a "Muslim Free Zone" because it might scare somebody into believing there's going to be another attack...ANY SECOND?

During the recession you saw a lot more women from the Middle East shopping in Boston, some covered head to toe with only a slit for the eyes exposed. I'd have to think this made some people more than a little nervous what with 9/11 and all.

Should we ban that as well?

You're on the slippery slope.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

No.


Sure they do. Some want to take away their "right" to move forward with their "already approved permits" simply because of their religion.



-spence

no - MOST (not some Spence, polls say MOST) believe it is insensitive to the families of the deceased to erect a muslim center close to ground zzero because the murder of these people was committed in the name of __________ by people the people who are in the ____________ religion.
There is no "simply". It is understandable.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

no - MOST (not some Spence, polls say MOST) believe it is insensitive to the families of the deceased to erect a muslim center close to ground zzero because the murder of these people was committed in the name of __________ by people the people who are in the ____________ religion.
There is no "simply". It is understandable.

Once again, I think polling on this subject is highly suspect. Not that it doesn't reflect what people are thinking, but what exactly are they thinking?

I'd wager most people have formed opinions based on the controversy rather than the real story. When you have pundits attacking the "9/11 MEGA MOSQUE" and that they "ALWAYS BUILD MOSQUES ON THE SITE OF GREAT VICTORIES" you're going to build a jaded public opinion.

From what I gather the Imam leading the effort is pretty mainstream and the intent is to build a community center, not a Mosque.

So take the polls for what they are, but remember, nine years ago a majority of Americans believed Saddam was behind 9/11.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

So take the polls for what they are, but remember, nine years ago a majority of Americans believed Saddam was behind 9/11.

-spence

They did????

[Circlehook]

Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Circlehook

Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.

Obama's remark was targeted at the Constitutional aspect, which as POTUS he's sworn to uphold.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Obama's remark was targeted at the Constitutional aspect, which as POTUS he's sworn to uphold.

-spence

Then he did a great job. If you consider flip-flopping upholding the Constitution.

Bottom line in all of this is that he made a comment on something without the White House having any idea he was going to. Then, when he realized that the publicity to his comments was negative, he decided to try to talk his way out of it. This made the story much bigger than it should be because he looks weak or indecisive for his flip-flop.

Personally, I think it's great. The negative press should have been on the Palins and Gingrich's of the world, yet Obama's taking the brunt of it. I't's like the Cambridge police situation.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Then he did a great job. If you consider flip-flopping upholding the Constitution.

I didn't see any flip flop, he simply clarified his remark as pertaining to the legal rather than ethical or emotional aspects of the issue.

Politically it may have not been the best thing to do as it's opened up a can of worms, but that's a different issue.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

I didn't see any flip flop, he simply clarified his remark as pertaining to the legal rather than ethical or emotional aspects of the issue.

Politically it may have not been the best thing to do as it's opened up a can of worms, but that's a different issue.

-spence

He flip flopped.




flip-flop


noun (plural flip-flops)

Definition:

1. dress backless sandal: a backless foam-rubber sandal with a V-shaped strap secured between the toes and at the sides of the foot ( informal )


2. North America change of mind: a change of opinion, especially by a politician ( informal )

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Circlehook

Obama shouldn't have a stance or an opinion on this either way. If he does, it should not be public. Seperation of church and state.

We don't hear his opinion on construction of churchs or temples.

This was his 2nd bad opinion. His 1st was when he took the Cambridge cop to task. The professor, Mr. Bates is a racist as is the President. Do not forget who this Prisidents mentor was and still is for the past 20 years,"Rev. Wright."

Further more the Taliban is in the White House.

[scottw]

will women be allowed to attend the trophy mosque?...or will they have to enter with the children through a small hatch in a back alley and worship in the basement with the livestock?


Police remove Muslim women from US mosque for breaking segregation rules


Police were called by an imam conducting a rug-butting session attended by around 20 men after Fatima Thompson, a convert to Islam, entered the male-only area with five “progressive” supporters.


The imam interrupted prayers to announce by microphone:

We are going to wait, because some people came to disturb the prayer, until the police come and take care of this issue.

Within minutes, three police officers arrived and told the women to leave or face arrest.

Washington police enforcing sharia law? Who woulda thunk it?

Thompson, who converted to Islam 18 years ago, said:

Wooden barriers have to be taken down and women have to be allowed to join, to pray behind the men in the main praying area. That’s our request.

She added:

We are against gender segregation, against the fact that women are put aside or in a totally different room at the mosque.

The Sunday protest was the second time women have sought to share the main prayer area at the mosque in Washington DC, after a group of women first tried in February.

Thompson said.

The general issue we are pushing is gender segregation and the ramifications it fosters. It’s not healthy, and not reflective of our society here. It’s very reflective of very restrictive, ultra orthodox societies.

Their hair covered with headscarves, the group entered the mosque’s prayer area via the main door usually reserved for men. Women and children ordinarily enter the Washington mosque, located in the city’s embassy district, through a small door hidden behind a screen.

Asra Nomani, a Muslim feminist who has participated in similar protests elsewhere in the United States, said:

If you are black in this country they can’t tell you to sit in a corner but if you are a woman they can.

The source of contention, according to Bare Naked Islam, is a small room created with seven foot high wooden walls. Jannah B’int Hannah describes how she feels in there where she cannot see the imam, or leader of the mosque, speak.

Boxed in, stifling, suffocating and totally a second class citizen.

Last month, Hannah and approximately 20 other women entered the main hall to pray, but D C police were called. They asked them to leave or be arrested.

Syed Burmi, the imam of Islamic Society of Western Maryland, says the physical separation helps maintain women’s privacy and modesty as well as keeps the focus on prayer.

"If I stand next to a lady or a woman stands next to me, maybe the focus will change and no longer be on God the Almighty. So that’s why we put the partition".

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

You're blending up a lot of issues into a sticky mess.

There's a very vocal part of the Right wing in this country that's absolutely anti-Islam. Of this I don't think there can be much debate. You also have a punditry who will use "tolerance" issues to attack Liberals in the political area for short-term gain.

There's also plenty of condemnation for acts of "terrorism" all around. I'd note that you say the "Muslims" that commit these crimes and not the "terrorists" that commit this crimes?

As for a shrine, once again you're lumping terrorists with mainstream Muslims. It's almost as if you believe they should feel guilty for 9/11.

The irony in all of this is that it's exactly what Bin Laden had hoped to achieve. Americans taking away the rights of Muslims in the US because of their faith. And then you wonder why there's such anti-US sentiment in the Islamic world...

-spence

Since I've been labaled a member of the KKK, and your insane, how about we let the firemen and policemen decide where it should go???

Come to think of it...they better build it flame proof because response time may be a little slow. They are short a few of their finest since the towers were destroyed.

FYI, just in case you forgot that was the second time the um.. terrorist, bombed it.

You were wrong about the trial in NY and you will be wrong about this.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Since I've been labaled a member of the KKK, and your insane, how about we let the firemen and policemen decide where it should go???

Come to think of it...they better build it flame proof because response time may be a little slow. They are short a few of their finest since the towers were destroyed.

So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?

You were wrong about the trial in NY and you will be wrong about this.

That was an opinion, here we're talking about the law.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?


-spence

you are aware that there are a lot of Muslims opposed to the building of this mosque and recognize that is is not only a bad idea but more likely an intentional provocation? .......but radical islam and the left in America seem to be in complete agreement

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

So I assume you believe that no first responders were Muslim, or that no Muslims were killed in the attack?


-spence

Why would you assume that?
We both can agree that Islamic radicals have no problem killing Muslims.