Waterboarding

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

"Waterboarding stopped a West Coast 911."

This seems to be 'slightly' inaccurate.

The 9/11-sized event was prevented in February 2002. However, the terrorist that Cheney/Rove claim yielded information on the event was apprehended in March 2003.

I must ask, why are we suppose to believe a word anyone from the previous administration says? They cannot even get the dates of their lies in line.

2 separate west coast instances that were stopped. you are confusing the time of one with the other.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

2 separate west coast instances that were stopped. you are confusing the time of one with the other.

Care to cite any references to back up your assertion?

And I think one must be careful with the assertion that an attack was "stopped". I'd wager that the number of terror attacks that actually become real threats (i.e. have proper funding, resources timing etc...) is very small.

Granted, any disruption is a good thing, but if we get word that two guys in Singapore are talking about attacking Americans and break it up that doesn't necessarily mean that an attack has been "stopped" as it may have never had a likely chance of becoming real in the first place.

I'd also note that we probably do disrupt a lot of early planning due to regular anti-terror activities that target funding, communication etc...some of this is credible and I'd think a lot of it is just noise. This must present a huge challenge for the CIA/FBI/NSA trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

All that being said, I still haven't heard much on credible attacks that have been thwarted, and certainly nothing that you could say wouldn't have happened without torture, which is really the point.

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by buckman

Our next war will be in Pakastan. The Taliban are moving towards a takeover of the Northwest areas. The Govornment will fall and they will move into the leadership vacuum. Then they will control the nukes. Scary thought, but inevitable without the US stepping in. No diplomacy will work here.

Yep, and while we have our front lines and thousands of troops in AFG, our only real supply line goes through Pakistan / Khyber Pass...

Originally Posted by spence

Pakistan has a very large military controlled by secular leadership. The chance that nukes would fall into the hands of the Taliban is still very remote. I'd be more concerned with loose Russian nukes at this point.

Remember as well that Pakistan is a pretty big country, and it's only the northwestern corner which has radicalized. Clinton has been pretty vocal of late that the policy to allow Sharia Law was a mistake and the Pakistani Government must do more to contain religious extremists.

I think that before the US has a large military event in Pakistan we'd see India making a play. Right now they're both US allies and in the near term India has a lot more to loose.

All that being said, the area does have the potential for explosion, as does the Middle East.

-spence

Hey sizzlecheeks:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...vance_east.php

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6164687.ece

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yep, and while we have our front lines and thousands of troops in AFG, our only real supply line goes through Pakistan / Khyber Pass...




Hey sizzlecheeks:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...vance_east.php

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6164687.ece

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan

I like how your first link starts with a quote on the Taliban's progress from an Islamist leader

But it looks like the Taliban is already in retreat as they've overstepped their bounds. I still maintain that the Pakistani Army of 500,000 active and another 500,000 reserves isn't going to let the Taliban take over.

That being said, I also noted it was ripe for flame up. Could get ugly...

-spence

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

I like how your first link starts with a quote on the Taliban's progress from an Islamist leader

But it looks like the Taliban is already in retreat as they've overstepped their bounds. I still maintain that the Pakistani Army of 500,000 active and another 500,000 reserves isn't going to let the Taliban take over.

That being said, I also noted it was ripe for flame up. Could get ugly...

-spence

I think that we are in for some big problems over there. The Paks are more worried about India than they are than what is happening in their own yard. On top of that, a sizeable percentage of the inteligence services and the military sympathize (if not members of) the Taleban. Yeh, its going to suck badly.

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by spence

Care to cite any references to back up your assertion?
-spence

Sure,,, let me just run to the base, and ask the Admiral if I can get those declassified. May take a while as he'd have to get approval from the Whitehouse, but I'm sure once he tells them I need it because some Liberal on a fishing board online doesn't wanna listen to sense, they will jump right on it.....

If Bush "misspoke" on the dates, well he did get confused from time to time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

If Bush "misspoke" on the dates, well he did get confused from time to time.

Several people in the Administration made the assertion on several different occasions, this isn't based on one Bush gaffe.

To be honest there's so much disinformation floating around it's difficult to know what's believable, although the reports from people who report to have actually been there seem pretty consistent.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

2 separate west coast instances that were stopped. you are confusing the time of one with the other.

I'm not confusing anything.

Bush, Rove and Cheney have all said at one time or another that the attack planned in 2002 was prevented with the intelligence they received from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. However, he was not tortured for information until March 2003.

There's nothing to confuse.

[scottw]

there were no attacks planned on America...it's all made up to justify the horrors of waterboarding....

hey, for the folks...democrats in washington and liberals everywhere that are just "OURTRAGED" that their country engaged in the brutal and unspeakable procedure known as waterboarding, how the world views us as a result and it's use on "3" terrorists so far as I can see ....

aren't many of you the same people that barely blink when asked about abortion and all of it's forms? our fearless leader has condoned the procedure(AND NOW ARRANGED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR) right up to the point that if you happen to survive THE TORTURE OF LATE TERM ABORTION..... you get no medical assistance.....simply expire in a closet....huh?

which would you prefer?....water poured over your head to simulate drowning.....or....being dragged through a tight space then having something jabbed into your brain to hopefully cause you death ? I know that the latter occurs far more frequently in this country each year...the former are mass murders or potential mass murderers and the later...well.....we'll never know now will we???

WHY SHOULD AMERICA EVER BE PUNISHED WITH A TERRORIST???
WE DIDN'T WANT THEM....
THEY SNUCK IN WHEN WE WEREN"T USING PROPER PROTECTION...
WE CAN"T AFFORD TO HAVE THEM AROUND.....
AND THEY"LL PROBABLY NEVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING...I MEAN...WHAT KIND OF LIVES WILL THEY HAVE IF LEFT TO DEVELOP???

If we are going to release "torture" photos/videos
We need to release to the public pictures and video of partial birth abortions along with accurate statistics so that the public can know and see what is being done...

let the public decide which is more heinous.....

what do you think the polls would be after watching both..... side by side...partial birth abortion of LITTLE BABIES vs. waterboarding TERRORISTS????
Clearly the dems in Washington and many of their supporters have decided which they find more troubling...YIKES!!!!

I THINK WE OWE THE WORLD A BIG APOLOGY!!!!

ABORT TERRORISTS...SUPPORT PLANNED RADICAL ISLAMISTHOOD