Why is The Striped Bass Conservation Bill so hush hush?

[Slipknot]

he also put one up instituting salt water fishing licenses, another for health care trust.
I don't know why they'd allow us to kill bass before they get a chance to spawn

[leptar]

From what i understand this is a done deal...

I just feel bad, not only for the commercial guys as i still have 2 family members that do this 24/7-365 a year, but for the 20-26" bass everyone will be allowed to keep..

and with 1 @ 40"+ kiss the stock good bye...

figure this... with extremely low #'s...

in any day in MA during the Striper season...
100,000 fishermen that keep fish fishing in MA a day
20-26" fish are so common so for the sake of argument
100,000 20-26" stripers a day are going to the table.
multiply that by 18 weeks or 126 days(again a low average)

12,600,000 20-26" fish are absolutely going to the table.

I read a report that showed an estimated 23,000,000 20-26" bass will be going to the table.

How many 40" fish will there be? who knows... with all the BS down South... netting, long lining from the beach, ect... How many 27-39" fish are going to get eaten by seals, released back "dead" gut hooked... Not at a $1,000 fine per fish... I will not chance it...

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by leptar

From what i understand this is a done deal...

I just feel bad, not only for the commercial guys as i still have 2 family members that do this 24/7-365 a year, but for the 20-26" bass everyone will be allowed to keep..

and with 1 @ 40"+ kiss the stock good bye...

figure this... with extremely low #'s...

in any day in MA during the Striper season...
100,000 fishermen that keep fish fishing in MA a day
20-26" fish are so common so for the sake of argument
100,000 20-26" stripers a day are going to the table.
multiply that by 18 weeks or 126 days(again a low average)

12,600,000 20-26" fish are absolutely going to the table.

I read a report that showed an estimated 23,000,000 20-26" bass will be going to the table.

How many 40" fish will there be? who knows... with all the BS down South... netting, long lining from the beach, ect... How many 27-39" fish are going to get eaten by seals, released back "dead" gut hooked... Not at a $1,000 fine per fish... I will not chance it...

Please, fill us in on "from what you understand this is a done deal.."
IMO this effort is a pee poor way to start conserving the resource. Commercial allocation in MA is what 1:29 of total catch. 1:4 of the MA landings. 1200 commercials, 650,000 recs. As written this bill is nothing more than an resource allocation grab. SF propoganda bs.

[leptar]

Originally Posted by inTHERAPY

Please, fill us in on "from what you understand this is a done deal.."
IMO this effort is a pee poor way to start conserving the resource. Commercial allocation in MA is what 1:29 of total catch. 1:4 of the MA landings. 1200 commercials, 650,000 recs. As written this bill is nothing more than an resource allocation grab. SF propoganda bs.

I was told there are more representatives supporting this "amendment". That this bill was something that many in office feel as a positive motion towards conservation. I am awaiting for some information from the ASFMC regarding what they will do if MA does decide to make striped bass a no take on the commercial side. What happens to the quota...

[BasicPatrick]

Ask MA DMF as well...it would be interesting to see if what you get for an answer matches what I got....hmmmmmm

Still doing my homework on this one.

[intrepid24]

the striped bass becomes a gamefish, there must be conservation measures that protect its forage, as well, for it to survive in the overall picture.
we never hear much debating on what we don't see, except pogy boats. and that is usually when pogies are scarce.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by inTHERAPY

1200 commercials, 650,000 recs.

I gotta ask....where does this number come from.....That number seems astronomically high...

Your talking 10% of the state being recreational fisherman....

[intrepid24]

i'm pretty sure that figure was thrown out there by brad burns, pres. of stripers forever in conjunction w/ magamefishbill.org
there were some other projections and that did'nt seem realistic.
for instance 3,400 more jobs in MA if the bill goes through, and an 200 million $ increase in revenue in the state of MA if the bill passes.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by intrepid24

i'm pretty sure that figure was thrown out there by brad burns, pres. of stripers forever in conjunction w/ magamefishbill.org
there were some other projections and that did'nt seem realistic.
for instance 3,400 more jobs in MA if the bill goes through, and an 200 million $ increase in revenue in the state of MA if the bill passes.

Those numbers seem horribly exaggerated. Whoever created that "650,000 recs" number will either be confirmed a genius or proven an idiot when the salt licensing program goes into effect. Like TDF pointed out, the equivalent of 1/10 of the state of MA are recreational saltwater fisherman?

[inTHERAPY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I gotta ask....where does this number come from.....That number seems astronomically high...

Your talking 10% of the state being recreational fisherman....

Here is a excerpt from http://www.mass.gov/czm/oceanmanagem...rdemogecon.pdf

"Over the past ten years, the state's recreational fishing industry has expanded enormously, and is now ranked as the second most valuable in the United States. The striped bass recreational fishery is widely regarded as the finest in the country, and draws participants from all over the country. Marine recreational anglers in Massachusetts spent about $850 million pursuing their sport in 19985. Over 900,000 people participated in the marine recreational fishery in 2002, including 560,000 of the Commonwealth’s citizens"

That's 2002! I can't locate that 650 number but I'll come across it again. The actual number I saw was 665,000.



Found it, an excerpt from http://www.wickedlocal.com/wellfleet...d-bass-fishing

A study sponsored by Stripers Forever estimates recreational fishing added 1.16 billion to state economy versus 24.2 million from commercial fishing (in 2003) and created 10,986 jobs to 524 in commercial fishing. Only 23 fishermen caught 6,000 pounds ($18,000 worth) of bass.
“So it’s not a commercial fishery,” Caldwell opined. “In Massachusetts there are 665,000 (striped bass) recreational fishermen, according to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and only 1,207 commercial fishermen reporting a catch.”

Granted all of those folks did not catch fish. The commercial catch in MA amounts to a hill of beans in the overall picture. Art

[The Dad Fisherman]

I believe its written somewhere....my argument is how did they arrive at these numbers....seriously, 1 in 10??? I just don't buy it....I want to know how they got these numbers, not some "Estimate" that they use to prove a point.

Originally Posted by inTHERAPY

Here is a excerpt from http://www.mass.gov/czm/oceanmanagem...rdemogecon.pdf

"Over the past ten years, the state's recreational fishing industry has expanded enormously, and is now ranked as the second most valuable in the United States. The striped bass recreational fishery is widely regarded as the finest in the country, and draws participants from all over the country. Marine recreational anglers in Massachusetts spent about $850 million pursuing their sport in 19985. Over 900,000 people participated in the marine recreational fishery in 2002, including 560,000 of the Commonwealth’s citizens"

That's 2002! I can't locate that 650 number but I'll come across it again. The actual number I saw was 665,000.



Found it, an excerpt from http://www.wickedlocal.com/wellfleet...d-bass-fishing

A study sponsored by Stripers Forever estimates recreational fishing added 1.16 billion to state economy versus 24.2 million from commercial fishing (in 2003) and created 10,986 jobs to 524 in commercial fishing. Only 23 fishermen caught 6,000 pounds ($18,000 worth) of bass.
“So it’s not a commercial fishery,” Caldwell opined. “In Massachusetts there are 665,000 (striped bass) recreational fishermen, according to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and only 1,207 commercial fishermen reporting a catch.”

Granted all of those folks did not catch fish. The commercial catch in MA amounts to a hill of beans in the overall picture. Art

[JFigliuolo]

I'm w/whatever sandman said... no seriously.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I believe its written somewhere....my argument is how did they arrive at these numbers....seriously, 1 in 10??? I just don't buy it....I want to know how they got these numbers, not some "Estimate" that they use to prove a point.

While I don't know how they reached this number I do not find it surprising at all when your looking at all marine recreational fishing. Many of these people are once or twice a year party boaters, charter trips or just throwing a chunk from the beach. Half the party boat charters are businesses taking their employees out for their once or twice a year fishing trips. Last May I stayed at a hotel on the cape and each morning there was 3 buses in the parking lot. Here there was 110 people from western Mass at the hotel down for three days of scup fishing.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

he also put one up instituting salt water fishing licenses, another for health care trust.
I don't know why they'd allow us to kill bass before they get a chance to spawn

Although I have a science background, I am not a fisheries expert. I will give you my best explanation based on my limited knowledge...

by have the slot between 20 and 26, the population of fish that size is reduced with the intent of taking some pressure off of the forage fish. This is supposed to allow the remaining fish to grow bigger, faster and reproduce more as they will be healthier/better fed. Also,some fish may breed a few times by 26".

The 27-40 fish are now off limits, have less competition from schoolies and should serve as a healthy breeding stock to replenish the smaller fish. It is easy to replenish lots of 20-26" fish. It is harder and takes longer to replace the 38" fish.

The above 40"? Most likely it is to again reduce pressure on bait and allow for trophies to be kept.

[Sweetwater]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Although I have a science background, I am not a fisheries expert. I will give you my best explanation based on my limited knowledge...

by have the slot between 20 and 26, the population of fish that size is reduced with the intent of taking some pressure off of the forage fish. This is supposed to allow the remaining fish to grow bigger, faster and reproduce more as they will be healthier/better fed. Also,some fish may breed a few times by 26".

The 27-40 fish are now off limits, have less competition from schoolies and should serve as a healthy breeding stock to replenish the smaller fish. It is easy to replenish lots of 20-26" fish. It is harder and takes longer to replace the 38" fish.

The above 40"? Most likely it is to again reduce pressure on bait and allow for trophies to be kept.

I tend to agree with Zimmy (but I'm not a fisheries expert either). One thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of striped bass over 34" (or so) are female. By allowing the 20"-26" slot, the mix is more likely to include an equal proportion of males to females; whereas, the over 28" requirement will tend to unevenly impact females as the fish get progressively larger.

The new ruling would leaves a big, protect slot of 27"-40" fish in the spawning population and would curtail the disproportionate mortality of female bass.

[MikeToole]

The purpose of the slot limit is to allow for taking more males and to protect a larger number of females so that they can reach breeder age. If you go down into the Southern striper states they already have a 18-28 inch slot or a 20-26 inch slot, two fish per day. Most of these states have seasons to protect fish larger then 28".

I have no real idea of how many more fish would be caught with a 20-26" slot for 1 fish a day, but I do not think the difference would hurt the fishery as much as you might think. If a fair percentage of the fish killed are males and a reduction in the number of larger fish killed occurs, in the end the fishery may make out.

Right now 8 of the 14 states allow commercial fishing for stripers. If Mass stops commercial striper fishing this will balance out the states at 7 to 7. This could end up playing very large in the ASMFC.

[BassDawg]

leptar, you ARE joking, right?

do the math on 2 per day on the low end of the slot times yer x number of anglers in MA, and then figure in 2 per day on the over 40" slot. there is no way in hale this does not kill LESS fish by the simple reason that 2 is twice 1.

more importantly, this will protect millions of commercially caught stripers per year. why didn't yer numbers offset the millions of stripers that the comm's can no longer take?

i LOVE the idea and am hopeful that the ASMFC will follow suit and do something proactive to Fix the Forage. i must say that 1@36"+ seems a bit more feasible and a better protection of the species. i will take this though and it seems like a good place to start,,,,,,,,,,

[leptar]

BassDawg, not joking...

Tell me if i am wrong,and this is what i thought to be true when i started this.
1,100,000 lbs of stripers more or less is what MA comm's are allowed to take for 2009.
If Ma abolished the Striper fishery all together the other states do take a split share of that 1,100,000 lbs since it is all regulated by the feds?

So really Ma comms miss out and the commercial fishing is just extended in other states to make the market quota...

[animal]

To my understanding Leptar,you are correct.

[BassDawg]

Originally Posted by leptar

BassDawg, not joking...

Tell me if i am wrong,and this is what i thought to be true when i started this.
1,100,000 lbs of stripers more or less is what MA comm's are allowed to take for 2009.
If Ma abolished the Striper fishery all together the other states do take a split share of that 1,100,000 lbs since it is all regulated by the feds?

So really Ma comms miss out and the commercial fishing is just extended in other states to make the market quota...

i am aware of that possibility,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

but it still reflects on the MA take, right?
just trying to hep ya arrive at better numbers, bro!

and i DO agree that we are looking at the overall state of the migratory stocks; still yet a slot, a reduction IN HALF of the daily allowable kill for MA, and stiffer fines SHOULD go a long way towards protecting our beloved prey!!

not trying to ruffle any feathers, my fine feathered friend.

[smac]

Originally Posted by leptar

BassDawg, not joking...

Tell me if i am wrong,and this is what i thought to be true when i started this.
1,100,000 lbs of stripers more or less is what MA comm's are allowed to take for 2009.
If Ma abolished the Striper fishery all together the other states do take a split share of that 1,100,000 lbs since it is all regulated by the feds?

So really Ma comms miss out and the commercial fishing is just extended in other states to make the market quota...

Thats the way I understand it.