What happened to Made in America?

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by redneck24

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.

"Toyota has ruined the car industry"
You must be joking !!!
The 3 big american car makers and the friggin greedy UAW hung themselves by putting out CRAP products for years and the UAW unions being so greedy !

[stripadan]

Give me back the America I love and once knew

What happened to Made in America?

Has this country sold out? yep we have.

you still get the rest made in freakin' China so why such a markup?


Slip,
It is ridiculous how these companies are getting products and raw materials from overseas and still marking up so much! I have a small tackle company, some of the members here know me. ALL my raw materials are U.S. made and of U.S. origin. When I was starting up, I spent a lot of time tracking down suppliers and making sure all materials were US made. It costs me on the bottom line, because most consumers don't care about "Made in the USA", or highest quality, all they care about is here and now and lowest price. When they b*tch about cheap quality I ask where was it made? They get sarcasm and no sympathy from me.

[BigBo]

And speaking of raw materials, it's because of corporate greed that the big 3 American auto makers have to buy much, if not most of the raw materials and sub-components to build American cars. They took full advantage of NAFTA and outsourced (as in outside of the US) so much and it's now biting them in the ass. Most of those suppliers locked themselves in with ironclad contracts so that if GM (just for example) decided to buy, say raw metal as another example, from a US supplier instead of the foreign supplier in the contract, they stand to get their asses sued big time.

[spence]

Originally Posted by BigBo

They took full advantage of NAFTA and outsourced (as in outside of the US) so much and it's now biting them in the ass.

If it wasn't for NAFTA a lot of these automotive suppliers would move their engineernig entirely out of the country. It's precisely because they can manufacture in Mexico and contract engineering work to India that allows them to keep a US operation (which employees Americans) running.

NAFTA isn't perfect, but it's not evil.

-spence

[BigBo]

Originally Posted by spence

If it wasn't for NAFTA a lot of these automotive suppliers would move their engineernig entirely out of the country. It's precisely because they can manufacture in Mexico and contract engineering work to India that allows them to keep a US operation (which employees Americans) running.

NAFTA isn't perfect, but it's not evil.

-spence

And that same logic is exactly why I may be loosing my job this year. Because corporate wants to increase profit margins, the decided to follow a path of planned demise of a product that still sells strong here in the US and move those production lines to factories in other countries. So twist that logic any way you want spence. 215 of us will be laid off in the next year or two. Oh, and they want us to volunteer to train the workers in the countries where the equipment is being shipped. Oh, and would you mind leaving your family for a month or two to travel and help start things up? Screw that.

[BigFish]

Spence....you are sometimes so insightful and other times blind! NAFTA opened the door to the situation we are in now. You really believe the things our politicians tell us don't you?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by BigBo

And that same logic is exactly why I may be loosing my job this year. Because corporate wants to increase profit margins, the decided to follow a path of planned demise of a product that still sells strong here in the US and move those production lines to factories in other countries. So twist that logic any way you want spence. 215 of us will be laid off in the next year or two. Oh, and they want us to volunteer to train the workers in the countries where the equipment is being shipped. Oh, and would you mind leaving your family for a month or two to travel and help start things up? Screw that.

Happened at several major financial institutions here in the BOS area, the long trip was nice, now the unemployment line is a littler longer here and the issue now takes 4 times as long to resolve.

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

"Toyota has ruined the car industry"
You must be joking !!!
The 3 big american car makers and the friggin greedy UAW hung themselves by putting out CRAP products for years and the UAW unions being so greedy !

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?

[Maloney]

I was talking to a guy at work who is now an American citizen and a big fan of Obama. He said that this Stimulus bill is great and Obama is doing a great thing like FDR did during the depression. I know this guy is proud to have become a citizen , but I had to point out that just about everything we could lay our eyes on in the store we work was made in America by American manufacturers with legal American workers. I also pointed out that the Depression had 15% unemployment for 7 years of FDRs administration and only a nutcase from Germany and a bunch of facists from Japan changed all that.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad )

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad )

All good points.So the supposed high wages they pay the Union guys effects the overall price of the vehicle ,which effects the amount of profit the company makes ,which in turn effects how often new vehicles can be engineered and old redesigned.I guess it could be a legit excuse if the numbers added up on a much higher level.If not it would be just another ploy put out to try and fool the public into believing it's all the evil unions fault .I may have to look deeper into this problem and see what I can dig up.

[Raven]

to build a new car.... that's CRAP!! not that your saying ADAM

but that it costs that much... i know, i know dies and molds
and all that....

but hey, many Americans are converting cars to all electric inside their own garages for $7000.00 bucks with readily available parts.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad )

Gotta disagree on many points here John.

As the saying was for years in the industry with the big 3 american auto makers
"Make them last as long as the average auto loan" then they start falling apart and they keep you coming back!
That mentality worked with older generations (especially anyone alive during WW2) but those days are long gone.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

[Adam_777]

Originally Posted by Raven

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

You know that for sure!They would pocket the profits just the same and complain they are paying them too much.Then say the price per vehicle,bla bla bla would end up burying the company in the long run and they would blame the workers.It's the blame game at it's best involving big $$.The truth is they make poor decisions when it comes to investing the $$ in the future of the company so they are looking for a scapegoat and in most cases they blame it on others instead of admitting they screwed up.When was the last time you heard a big company admit they screwed up ?They don't ever,it's easier to put the blame on someone else for the problems they've caused.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Adam_777

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?

Never said I blamed the UAW for bad engineering ! The engineers get that blame, I said they were "greedy"
On average they make $70 + and hr to work on an assembly line , I wouldn't call that even close to minimum wage, then there is all the retirees collecting ridiculous pensions !