Shoud illegal immigrants be eligible for Social Security benefits?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

I was going to but the old adage of "Teaching a Pig to sing" came to mind.

No singing necessary, just admit you're wrong and all is right

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

No singing necessary, just admit you're wrong and all is right

-spence

Okay, I'm sure you already know the words but repeat after me:
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaja.
Someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya,
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s sleeping Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s sleeping, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s sleeping, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Okay, I'm sure you already know the words but repeat after me:
voter fraud, my Lord, Kumbaya,
faouty intelegence, my Lord, Kumbaya,
corrupt senators, my Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
I hope the next ones better, Lord, Kumbaya,
I hope he is smarter than a squirrell, Lord, Kumbaja.
I hope hes not another cowboy, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s and idiot, Lord, Kumbaya,
Someone`s inempt, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s lieing, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya

[spence]

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument

-spence

[fishpoopoo]

*sigh*

i don't know about you guys, but most of the illegal aliens i see around me work their gazoongas off to send money back to their families. most of these are mexicans, etc.

they take jobs nobody wants. they do unsafe and dirty work nobody does. compared to the rest of us they are willing to work for peanuts. they do it without benefits (well, except in cali). they crib in groups and eat instant noodles 24/7 to save money. their work ethic put some of us to shame.

i can't help but have a sincere admiration for these people living on hardscrabble, regardless of how they got here.

did i mention many are serving in our armed forces, fighting and dying for the rest of us? and they're not citizens.

your perspective might depend on where you live. people who live in Cali and the southern border states (Texas for example) might be up their eyeballs in illegal-related crime. here on the east coast, i don't see it that much. maybe i am out of touch.

the reality is that they are here and more than a few of us find that for the most part they are wanted/needed.

we really should have some kind of guest worker program, to legitimize their presence here (take a headcount and collect tax revenue!).

i'm not saying we have to offer citizenship or even certain benefits (is it fair for them to take benefits once they start paying taxes?), but there ought to be a way to track 'em - allow the law-abiding productive ones to come and go and keep the bad apples out.

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Bassturbed

*sigh*

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.

Illegal aliens and immigrants here on a valid work visa are two completley different issues. While I sympatihize with the plight of those workers who are in danger of losing their sponsor I feel worse for the skilled trades workers who spent the winter on unemployment while illegal immigrants performed their jobs for a fraction of the money. Framing, roofing, sheet rocking, tiling etc. etc. are not jobs Americans dont want to do.

[Skitterpop]

Originally Posted by Bassturbed

*sigh*

i don't know about you guys, but most of the illegal aliens i see around me work their gazoongas off to send money back to their families. most of these are mexicans, etc.

they take jobs nobody wants. they do unsafe and dirty work nobody does. compared to the rest of us they are willing to work for peanuts. they do it without benefits (well, except in cali). they crib in groups and eat instant noodles 24/7 to save money. their work ethic put some of us to shame.

i can't help but have a sincere admiration for these people living on hardscrabble, regardless of how they got here.

did i mention many are serving in our armed forces, fighting and dying for the rest of us? and they're not citizens.

your perspective might depend on where you live. people who live in Cali and the southern border states (Texas for example) might be up their eyeballs in illegal-related crime. here on the east coast, i don't see it that much. maybe i am out of touch.

the reality is that they are here and more than a few of us find that for the most part they are wanted/needed.

we really should have some kind of guest worker program, to legitimize their presence here (take a headcount and collect tax revenue!).

i'm not saying we have to offer citizenship or even certain benefits (is it fair for them to take benefits once they start paying taxes?), but there ought to be a way to track 'em - allow the law-abiding productive ones to come and go and keep the bad apples out.

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.

Well said Ben

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument

-spence

Wow, you'll twist anything in defense of illegal immigration wont you?

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Wow, you'll twist anything in defense of illegal immigration wont you?

Yes, I guess I did go a little overboard on your debating ability

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes, I guess I did go a little overboard on your debating ability

-spence

I noticed you still haven't voted in the poll.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument

-spence

The fact that the average illegal alien household (those that aren't working under the table) paid in 2002, $4,912in taxes and cost the government $6,949 in expenses supports my argument, not yours. Where is that huge offset you were refering to? And while you are at it, what exactly is your point? Are you trying to convince somebody that we should chill out about illegal immigration, its not that bad? When was the last time someone in your industry was under-bid by unlicensed, uninsured, unqualifed criminals? How many employees did you lay-off in the past year because their work was lost to illegal immigrants? But I guess if it doesn't effect you personally it's all good, right? Why don't you try supporting those who are trying to earn a living in their own country for a decent wage, it's the decent thing to do.

[spence]

Read my own posts again you shrimp-less fool!

My response was in context of your absurd statement that...

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

As much as some people will fight and argue against the notion, illegal immigration is in my opinion, the single greatest economic threat this country faces.

Which you have yet to back up with a single fact!

The chart you keep citing as evidence is comparing a net loss per illegal with an average based on a progressive tax system. The legal tax payers only slightly break even because the rich pay most of the taxes.

You don't even know your own GOP talking points!

Keep digging

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Read my own posts again you shrimp-less fool!

My response was in context of your absurd statement that...



Which you have yet to back up with a single fact!

The chart you keep citing as evidence is comparing a net loss per illegal with an average based on a progressive tax system. The legal tax payers only slightly break even because the rich pay most of the taxes.



You don't even know your own GOP talking points!

Keep digging

-spence

The rich pay most of the taxes? You don't even know your own Code-Pink Talking points!

Catch up with the real world and understand this isn't about politics it's about real people, real jobs, real facts and real dollars. Downplay it all you want..........where are those facts on the huge offset that you used as an unsupported argument again? And seeing how you avoided the questions I guess we can assume you weren't under-bid by unlicensed, uninsured, unqualifed criminals, or were forced to lay-off employees in the past year because their work was lost to illegal immigrants, so no problem. I can read off the top of my head dozens of guys who have lost jobs to illegals, but I can't think of a single one who has lost anything to the disruption of global energy supplies. Ask them what's the biggest threat. Thanks for validating the singing pig theory (again).