cutting VMC's

[MAC]

Another thing to think about is like Pete and Clogston said. Some plugs do swim better without split rings. Most plugs with 2 belly hooks were made to accomodate cut hooks. Add in split rings and hooks can and do sometimes tangle. Depending on the size of the lure its hook placement can't be changed enough to make split rings work without affecting the action of the plug.

[DZ]

Good question and good responses.

Pete,
Just a few thoughts about cut trebles: I have lots of experience (more than I wish to remember) with all aspects of failed treble hooks. I prefer to use non-cut trebles and attach them with heavy duty split rings on almost all my plugs.

That said, I have never had a cut treble fail (on a hook-up) where the cut was. They would straighten like the non-cut trebles but the “cut” never failed on a fish. The cut trebles do have a tendency to break when trying to remove them as has been said by others on this thread. When metal is bent it weakens – cut trebles should be used once - then discarded.

I use heavy duty split rings on my plugs – what I’ve learned is that split rings give your treble hook more room to rotate so as to counteract a bass’s ability to gain leverage and straighten them. Split rings are especially important in connecting the rear treble of the plug. I have had split rings fail on occasion but I believe that having them on has prevented many more straightened trebles. Remember - these applications have been put through the ultimate test at the island in the days of big bass that seemed to take pleasure in destroying your tackle.

As far as trebles on Danny style plugs fouling: a trick I’ve learned from some of the NY crowd was to graduate the size of the trebles you use. If it’s a three treble plug use a 4/0 on the front 3/0 on the middle and 2/0 on the rear. There are so many danny style metal lips out there now that you may have to adjust treble size depending on the plug.
This should help decrease fouling.

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

[JFigliuolo]

Sign me up!

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by DZ

As far as trebles on Danny style plugs fouling: a trick I’ve learned from some of the NY crowd was to graduate the size of the trebles you use. If it’s a three treble plug use a 4/0 on the front 3/0 on the middle and 2/0 on the rear. There are so many danny style metal lips out there now that you may have to adjust treble size depending on the plug.
This should help decrease fouling.

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

I've been able significantly slow tangling by using the new Wolverine #5 splits on my Dannys. It's almost as good as using open-eye hooks; both the small size of the split ring as well as the width helps tuck the hook up close to the plug. I'm tempted to stick with it now despite occasional tangles. The past few seasons I've been running just a teaser on the tail with 2 3/0's on the belly. The fish seem to approve...

A plug tweaking seminar would be great! No one is really doing anything like that, outside of Steve McKenna with Sluggos. And everyone loves that presentation.

[RIROCKHOUND]

A plug tweaking seminar would be great! No one is really doing anything like that, outside of Steve McKenna with Sluggos. And everyone loves that presentation.[/QUOTE]

Oooohhh yeah....
love to pick the brain of the master
D.. got some new pocket rockets... lighter than normal for calmer water.... One has your name on it... maybe the march meeting....

[tattoobob]

Originally Posted by DZ

I’m thinking about doing a new seminar on ways to tinker with plugs to improve them. It would cover loading plugs, trebles, split rings, droppers, etc. Any interest out there?
DZ

Count me in, I loved your last talk as well

[Zeno]

I have yet to see a darter that swims better with a split ring than without it.
I cut VMC hooks on most of my plugs.The only exception is my pencils and sometimes needles.I wouldn't dream on putting one on junior atom or a darter.Do they open ? Not that I ever experienced or seen.I did have a 2/0 closed eye VMC straitened out............tight drag........
To those of you who automatically add split rings to all your plugs ...a thought....
I know a well known builder who literally breaks his a** to get a swivel burred into the body as deep as possible so that the hook without the split ring doesn't hang low.Now when you add a ring you kind of defeat the purpose.....not that I am advocating that the buyer of a plug should not be able to rig it anyway it wants ,mind you......another thing ...did you ever consider that by adding a split rig you just added another thing that can possibly fail (at worst possible times of course)?

[JHABS]

Fact is When you Cut a closed eyed V.M.C. YOU weaken the hook expose it to more corrosion , There is No way you are going to Break a Wolverine Split Ring. Or bend a 6x strong V.M.C.,Also with the ring you are talking about adding a little length which may change the action on some Plugs but Very little if Any,I've tried with and with out rings on some New swimmers that will be out this Year and there was NO change in action........ So some say potato and some say potatoe...........Its a Personal Perference thingy....................Do what Works for You.

[Zeno]

Good point John ."Whatever works for you " is a good motto to have ,not just while fishing but in life too.

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

[parker23]

I have changed all of my tail hooks to single. I am slowly changing belly hooks to singles as well. I am a flyfishing convert, trebble hooks are nasty. I do not like hooking a fish w/3-9 points, when I can do it w/one. Trebbles do increase hookup/landing ratio, however, it is not worth the cost to the fishing stock. Hooks in the eye, spine, gut and cheek drive me nuts. I feel like a freeking gill netter, killing anything within the grasp of my hooks. I'd rather land fewer fish than fowl hooking a schoolie w/3 sets of trelbes lodged into its body.

In my opinion, if you keep a tight line to the fish you do not need 9 points to land the fish. My dad caugt a 64# bass on a single hook w/ eel. Why do we need so many extra points w/artificials?

[tattoobob]

A hook with 3 sets of trebles is just not needed, I remove all hooks then beef up the front treble 1 to 2 sizes I then dress a swash hook either 5/0 or 6/0 on 2 oz and above leaving the middle treble off. Bass will take the front hook and blues on the rear. I just don't like the cut hook thing.

Zeno, I have never had one open Because I always remove them.

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by tattoobob

A hook with 3 sets of trebles is just not needed, I remove all hooks then beef up the front treble 1 to 2 sizes I then dress a swash hook either 5/0 or 6/0 on 2 oz and above leaving the middle treble off. Bass will take the front hook and blues on the rear. I just don't like the cut hook thing.

Zeno, I have never had one open Because I always remove them.

That works on some plugs but screws up the action on others, especially dannies and other metal lips IMO. Metal lips are very sensative and really have to be treated on a lure to lure basis. Beachmaster dannies for example don't swim as well with the middle treble removed or with split rings added.

[Pete_G]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Good point John ."Whatever works for you " is a good motto to have ,not just while fishing but in life too.

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

Never, and judging by the posts in this thread it's rare or simply doesn't occur. Which is exactly what I wanted to have confirmed.

[JHABS]

How many of you have seen when you are changing your hooks like a Mustad or cut V.M.C , When grabing the eye of the hook and opening it with your plyers with no effort it Breaks, I'd rather play it safe and stay with the closed eye ,Because when you cut the hook you are weakening it, I feel you are asking for trouble and why take that chance and Loose the Fish of a life time It may not Happen but it Could........................Also I make Pencil Poppers with 2 Single Hooks and it Works fine, Try it.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by JHABS

How many of you have seen when you are changing your hooks like a Mustad or cut V.M.C , When grabing the eye of the hook and opening it with your plyers with no effort it Breaks, I'd rather play it safe and stay with the closed eye

I've seen it happen more often than not with a Mustad open eyed hook. On plugs that are brand new out of the wraper---both Gibbs and Superstrike. It's been a problem for about 3-4 years now.

But, I never had it happen with one I put on myself, back when Mustad still made good hooks. And I rigged hundreds of plugs for Hawg Hunter Brad over the years. I put the hook on, took the crimping pliers, and gave it one firm squeeze, and where the end of the eye ended up, it stayed. I think some guys play with the eye too much to get it flush with the other side of the eye.

Now, on the changing the size of the hook deal by adding a split ring--take a 4/0 Mustad, a 4/0 Eagle Claw, and a 4/0 VMC and put them side by side. The shank length of the VMC is shorter by a good 3/4". When you add a ring to the swivel and put on a shorter shanked treble, you ain't really changing squat, length wise.

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Out of curiously did anyone's hook ever open at the eye by a fish ?Mustad ,cut VMC ,whatever brand ?
I seen plenty of hooks straiten out but I am yet to see eye opened up ?
Anyone cares to share ?

Goo Goo eyes with 4/0 open eye mustads this year. Opened the front hook eye up, landed the fish on the tail hook. Had a fishing partner loose a bass last year on Block after a lengthy battle. The plug went out with a pair of 3/0 mustad open eyes, came back without any hooks. 2 seasons ago, another fishing partner was throwing a Gibbs darter and dropped a good bass during the the battle. Brought the plug in and one of the hooks was gone. He had 3/0 or 4/0 open eye mustads on the plug. So, it does happen, just not as often as hooks straighten.