lets talk herring

[slapshot]

I think we had the late season in CT. I don't remember too well, but I think we started July 1 and went into October.

[squiddler]

1st, the Russian ship was not allowed to fish, only to purchase from our (US) fisherman, so stop right there. 2nd, there are river herring, and sea herring, and both are in huge trouble, no matter what someones eyes might tell them. There are trawlers all over the New England waters, all year round, netting the sea herring by the thousands of pounds, and they dock in local piers, and sell their catch to the highest bidder, just like every other fishery known to American man so to speak. The bulk of herring caught are not used as bait, except in chum and oil as they are a delicate fish and lots of "chuff" by-product comes from the procccesing plants to provide plenty for this purpose. Herring does not freeze all that well, thats why you don't see it in flats like many other bait sized fish are. As to its live bait effectiveness, I don't think anyone will argue that it is a killer bait, but let's explore the ability of the common man to keep herring around, live and kicking, for a cost as well as time effective bait.
The way I see it, it is too difficult to keep more than a few alive unless you have a car large enough and in an area where it will get enough tidal flow to keep them alive, as well as protected to keep critters or fellow man out of them. Not to mention the constant vigil for dead fish, as one will quickly lead to many dead. Enough about my opinions as to its merit as a bait, and back to the basic issue, which is should there be a closing of all runs. Absolutely is the answer. You've had your 5 or 10 year study in the counting of these fish that so many members here seem to deem necessary, not with a man with a clicker, but by optical counters installed in many prominent runs on the eastern seaboard. The numbers are so drastically and dramatically down from their historic past that I find it difficult to believe any well informed person would declare that because there are thousands in an isolated area that the stocks are fine, never mind many other tell tale signs which obviously point to a severly depleted stock.
These river herring in question return every spring to the same general areas off the coast, and then the ancient call to spawn draws them into the river and stream systems of our watershed, but as to whether it is the exact river or stream, no definitive answer is agreed upon by those that study them. However, as witnessed everywhere, fish attempt to get into streams and rivers, long ago closed off by dams or spillways. Take Newport, RI as a prime example. Every so often, herring show directly off 1st beach, and even a few make it into the moat to die. These fish could not have been born in the big pond, as the spawn cycle is roughly a 4-5 year time frame from fry stage. Other rivers reopened after many years to the sea supported herring runs in subsequent years.
This was along time ago though, as the thousands have now turned into hundreds or none at all at even the most prolific herring runs of old. From NY north through the Cape and beyond, the last 4 years have been a severe and steady decline in returning numbers. No returning fish means no new fry in the ponds. That means in 4 years time, poof, gone, bye bye. An immediate shutdown is necessary to determine if the current 1, 2 and 3 year old fry can turn around the depletion that this year(4th) will have produced. Any available adults left to spawn in the next 2-4 years should be allowed to do so without interference from man, as the ospreys, stripers, and other natural predators will pick off quite a few without our help. Can you honestly tell me that a closure would really put that much of a hurt on the recreational fisherman?
Don't think a fishery could crash that quickly? Ask your local Atlantic Salmon what he thinks. Very similar life cycles..........

[squiddler]

Oh, yeah, and Makomike, to REALLY clear things up, they remain on anchor, in the bay. They made them switch from East to West Passage of Narry Bay, but always at anchor, never at dock.

[Nebe]

Squidler.. i couldnt agree more

i havent seen that Russian boat in a year or 2...

[NIB]

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by NIB

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

[FormerUser]

Pen raising saltwater fish has its own problems.As has already been shown with farm raising salmon these fish by virtue of being raised in pens are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts.

These fish have been known to escape in enough numbers and interbreed with wild populations and introduce their infererior genentics into the general population.This can cause a host of problems mainly which is the newborn fish are prone to disease.

Don't get me wrong farm raising fish is a good thing but its techniques need to be vastly improved.

Obviously fish farm raised soley in self contained freshwater ponds don't apply.

[NIB]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

What is AFAIK ?

Is there a commercial fishery for ATLANTIC SEA HERRING?
I guess what ur tell me its the rec.fisherman takin to many.not the bycatch._Please.Where are the American Shad.They all swim the same basic waters.net em up put em in a can they all taste the same pickled.

[squiddler]

Remember those 3 mile slicks behind the boat out the bay when it was in East Passage? The seals used to pile up on citing rock off Rose Island. Haven't seen them that thick since it left.

Those trawlers are the pariahs of the oceans though.Wish they would make the entire commercial fishery go back to hand gear and vessels under 65 feet. There are enough farm raised fish out there to supply the world's fish needs. With Tilapia now available, which is a 98% vegetarian(that means no fish are killed to feed these fish, unlike other fisheries which kill roughly 3-4 fish to raise 1 adult food fish)
fish, they could use them for fish meal and oil to rear the other more desirable fish. Hell, the Japanese are now farming Mahi-Mahi and pen rearing Bluefin tuna quite successfully, along with zillions of shellfish and shrimp.
A hand gear only i.e rod and reel, hand line, or harpoon only, no nets over 10 feet in diameter, no pots over 5 on trawls, etc. fishery could support many a bayman again and supply the local markets with fresh fish as well as domestic and international trade with gourmet and high end restaraunts. The price would remain at a premium, facilitating a healthier marine economy as well as pay base for the fisherman and their families. It would also create a safer commercial fishery, enabling the entire fleet to fish closer to home and under better weather by relieving the incredible pressure that large scale commercial operations place on the environment. Not to mention our by kill of many fish discarded when non discriminatory practices are prevalent.
If we really want to change for the better, IMHO thats the only way to go. Don't threaten to cut them off entirely, only force them to micro size and change their ways......

[squiddler]

Were you lookin over my shoulder NIB??? seriously though, my point above about closing the harvest in the streams is simply to allow the few remaining out there to SPAWN, They cant do it if they cant get back to the stream. Of course commercial fishing needs to be addressed, and soon, but irresponsible taking of a not so important baitfish by recreational fisherman is just plain stupid. There are too many alternative baits both natural and man made that work wonders on the game fish we seek. Do you think it is co-incidence that so many "great" fisherman continually put massive fish on the beach or boat with artificials??? There are so many effective baits out there that it should be easy to switch. Adaptation is the key to mans ingenuity, and most great fisherman adapt.
Our biggest problem as humans in regards to the environment is that we feel the fate of the earth, along with its "other" inhabitants is different from that of ours as humans. It' s not. By helping troubled species all along the food chain when we can, we better help our fate, period.

Shutting down the runs is the only resp[onsible thing to do. Go buy some nice pearl colored slug gos in 9 inch, some storm shads in same size plus 6 inch, a few needlefish plugs, and some nice Pt. Jude tins and eel imitators, and youve done your part to relieve the pressure on 3 different troubled bait species; herring, bunker, and eels. Youve also pumped money into the local retail economy, have caught a few nice fish if your using said lures properly in th eright conditions, and you can look and the mirror and ignore the ugly face you see cuz you dun your good deed for the day, samaritan.

[NIB]

Hey I'm a responsible sporstman.I agree wit shutting it down if i thought it might do something.It's really not gonna make a difference. lets see em(comms) make the the same sacrifices for the fishery.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by squiddler

Remember those 3 mile slicks behind the boat out the bay when it was in East Passage? The seals used to pile up on citing rock off Rose Island. Haven't seen them that thick since it left.

saw them there a few days ago.

[MakoMike]

[QUOTE=squiddler] There are trawlers all over the New England waters, all year round, netting the sea herring by the thousands of pounds, and they dock in local piers, and sell their catch to the highest bidder, just like every other fishery known to American man so to speak. The bulk of herring caught are not used as bait, except in chum and oil as they are a delicate fish and lots of "chuff" by-product comes from the procccesing plants to provide plenty for this purpose. Herring does not freeze all that well, thats why you don't see it in flats like many other bait sized fish are. QUOTE]

When I fished out of Montauk we used to buy frozen flats of sea herring for bait all the time.