What part of Pro-Life is letting people die to help the Dow

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

You buy boat and and it sinks its funny your trying to blame the previous owner 3.5 years later... funny how conservatives expect personal responsibility from everyone else , except Republicans or Trump....

Trump creates his own issue someday you'll see it

He went through that equipment during the HiN1 outbreak, which I believe was in 2009. Gave him a lot of years.

I don't blame either one of them. No one was worried about a shortage, this outbreak caught the world by surprise.

To repeat, I don't blame either one. I think it's laughable to blame one and not the other. We are all shocked that you blame Trump and not Obama. Just shocked, Stunned, we all have to lie down.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't blame either one of them. No one was worried about a shortage, this outbreak caught the world by surprise.

It did, but it hit China first, not the whole world at the same time, and a lot of the medical experts were saying as China was escalating, that we should be prepared. Trump gets credit for being proactive about the travel restrictions with China, but then it is equally fair to ask what else they were doing. Based on his talk, and apparently actions of the administration, they treated the travel restrictions as 'problem solved'

The response for other preparations was delayed, at the federal and state levels. I don't see how that is a debate point in any of this. I don't think POTUS took this seriously enough in the beginning, and still at times is waffling in public with misleading and incorrect statements about testing, preparedness and none of that helps.

It is going to be a long road, if we are lucky, and Faucci's number (200K dead) is correct (and that is lucky, vs millions in some models).

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

It did, but it hit China first, not the whole world at the same time, and a lot of the medical experts were saying as China was escalating, that we should be prepared. Trump gets credit for being proactive about the travel restrictions with China, but then it is equally fair to ask what else they were doing. Based on his talk, and apparently actions of the administration, they treated the travel restrictions as 'problem solved'

The response for other preparations was delayed, at the federal and state levels. I don't see how that is a debate point in any of this. I don't think POTUS took this seriously enough in the beginning, and still at times is waffling in public with misleading and incorrect statements about testing, preparedness and none of that helps.

It is going to be a long road, if we are lucky, and Faucci's number (200K dead) is correct (and that is lucky, vs millions in some models).

yes it hit china first. and as i showed beyond any doubt, when trump responded
by implementing a travel ban, Biden, Schumer and CNN said Trump was a bigot and a dictator for doing so. As recently as late February many in the liberal media were saying that concern about the virus was a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry against Chinese. Diblasio was telling new yorkers in late february to keep going out to restaurants and bars.

Now all of a sudden, Trump
missed the obvious signals and should have seen it coming.

Bryan, excluding you, the hypocrisy from the left on this issue is obvious. mind boggling. Politics is all that matters.

Trumps words, as usual, are poor. You’re saying he under reacted. the entire left said he over reacted and was just trying to stoke fear.

can’t have it both ways.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

yes it hit china first. and as i showed beyond any doubt, when trump responded
by implementing a travel ban, Biden, Schumer and CNN said Trump was a bigot and a dictator for doing so. As recently as late February many in the liberal media were saying that concern about the virus was a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry against Chinese. Diblasio was telling new yorkers in late february to keep going out to restaurants and bars.

Now all of a sudden, Trump
missed the obvious signals and should have seen it coming.

Bryan, excluding you, the hypocrisy from the left on this issue is obvious. mind boggling. Politics is all that matters.

Trumps words, as usual, are poor. You’re saying he under reacted. the entire left said he over reacted and was just trying to stoke fear.

can’t have it both ways.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Your beating that one good Trump move to death, look beyond and see what the results of pour decisions, lack of timely decisions and pour messaging.

Dr. weighs in ... we can do much better ...

Please don't tell me that in the richest country in the world in the 21st century, I'm supposed to work in a fictionalized Soviet-era disaster zone and fashion my own face mask out of cloth because other Americans hoard supplies for personal use and so-called leaders sit around in meetings hearing themselves talk. I ran to a bedside the other day to intubate a crashing, likely COVID, patient. Two respiratory therapists and two nurses were already at the bedside. That's 5 N95s masks, 5 gowns, 5 face shields and 10 gloves for one patient at one time. I saw probably 15-20 patients that shift, if we are going to start rationing supplies, what percentage should I wear precautions for?

Make no mistake, the CDC is loosening these guidelines because our country is not prepared. Loosening guidelines increases healthcare workers' risk but the decision is done to allow us to keep working, not to keep us safe. It is done for the public benefit - so I can continue to work no matter the personal cost to me or my family (and my healthcare family).

Sending healthcare workers to the front line asking them to cover their face with a bandana is akin to sending a soldier to the front line in a t-shirt and flip flops.

I don't want talk. I don't want assurances. I want action. I want boxes of N95s piling up, donated from the people who hoarded them. I want non-clinical administrators in the hospital lining up in the ER asking if they can stock shelves to make sure that when I need to rush into a room, the drawer of PPE equipment I open isn't empty. I want them showing up in the ER asking "how can I help" instead of offering shallow "plans" conceived by someone who has spent far too long in an ivory tower and not long enough in the trenches. Maybe they should actually step foot in the trenches.

I want billion-dollar companies like 3M halting all production of any product that isn't PPE to focus on PPE manufacturing. I want a company like Amazon, with its logistics mastery (it can drop a package to your door less than 24 hours after ordering it), halting its 2-day delivery of 12 reams of toilet paper to whoever is willing to pay the most in order to help get the available PPE supply distributed fast and efficiently in a manner that gets the necessary materials to my brothers and sisters in arms who need them.

I want Proctor and Gamble, and the makers of other soaps and detergents, stepping up too. We need detergent to clean scrubs, hospital linens and gowns. We need disinfecting wipes to clean desk and computer surfaces. What about plastics manufacturers? Plastic gowns aren't some high-tech device, they are long shirts/smocks...made out of plastic. Get on it. Face shields are just clear plastic. Nitrile gloves? Yeah, they are pretty much just gloves...made from something that isn't apparently Latex. Let's go. Money talks in this country. Executive millionaires, why don't you spend a few bucks to buy back some of these masks from the hoarders, and drop them off at the nearest hospital.

I love biotechnology and research but we need to divert viral culture media for COVID testing and research. We need biotechnology manufacturing ready and able to ramp up if and when treatments or vaccines are developed. Our Botox supply isn't critical, but our antibiotic supply is. We need to be able to make more plastic ET tubes, not more silicon breast implants.

Let's see all that. Then we can all talk about how we played our part in this fight. Netflix and chill is not enough while my family, friends and colleagues are out there fighting. Our country won two world wars because the entire country mobilized. We out-produced and we out-manufactured while our soldiers out-fought the enemy. We need to do that again because make no mistake, we are at war, healthcare workers are your soldiers, and the war has just begun.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

look beyond and see what the results of pour decisions, lack of timely decisions and pour messaging.

pour spelling

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Your beating that one good Trump move to death, look beyond and see what the results of pour decisions, lack of timely decisions and pour messaging.

Dr. weighs in ... we can do much better ...

Please don't tell me that in the richest country in the world in the 21st century, I'm supposed to work in a fictionalized Soviet-era disaster zone and fashion my own face mask out of cloth because other Americans hoard supplies for personal use and so-called leaders sit around in meetings hearing themselves talk. I ran to a bedside the other day to intubate a crashing, likely COVID, patient. Two respiratory therapists and two nurses were already at the bedside. That's 5 N95s masks, 5 gowns, 5 face shields and 10 gloves for one patient at one time. I saw probably 15-20 patients that shift, if we are going to start rationing supplies, what percentage should I wear precautions for?

Make no mistake, the CDC is loosening these guidelines because our country is not prepared. Loosening guidelines increases healthcare workers' risk but the decision is done to allow us to keep working, not to keep us safe. It is done for the public benefit - so I can continue to work no matter the personal cost to me or my family (and my healthcare family).

Sending healthcare workers to the front line asking them to cover their face with a bandana is akin to sending a soldier to the front line in a t-shirt and flip flops.

I don't want talk. I don't want assurances. I want action. I want boxes of N95s piling up, donated from the people who hoarded them. I want non-clinical administrators in the hospital lining up in the ER asking if they can stock shelves to make sure that when I need to rush into a room, the drawer of PPE equipment I open isn't empty. I want them showing up in the ER asking "how can I help" instead of offering shallow "plans" conceived by someone who has spent far too long in an ivory tower and not long enough in the trenches. Maybe they should actually step foot in the trenches.

I want billion-dollar companies like 3M halting all production of any product that isn't PPE to focus on PPE manufacturing. I want a company like Amazon, with its logistics mastery (it can drop a package to your door less than 24 hours after ordering it), halting its 2-day delivery of 12 reams of toilet paper to whoever is willing to pay the most in order to help get the available PPE supply distributed fast and efficiently in a manner that gets the necessary materials to my brothers and sisters in arms who need them.

I want Proctor and Gamble, and the makers of other soaps and detergents, stepping up too. We need detergent to clean scrubs, hospital linens and gowns. We need disinfecting wipes to clean desk and computer surfaces. What about plastics manufacturers? Plastic gowns aren't some high-tech device, they are long shirts/smocks...made out of plastic. Get on it. Face shields are just clear plastic. Nitrile gloves? Yeah, they are pretty much just gloves...made from something that isn't apparently Latex. Let's go. Money talks in this country. Executive millionaires, why don't you spend a few bucks to buy back some of these masks from the hoarders, and drop them off at the nearest hospital.

I love biotechnology and research but we need to divert viral culture media for COVID testing and research. We need biotechnology manufacturing ready and able to ramp up if and when treatments or vaccines are developed. Our Botox supply isn't critical, but our antibiotic supply is. We need to be able to make more plastic ET tubes, not more silicon breast implants.

Let's see all that. Then we can all talk about how we played our part in this fight. Netflix and chill is not enough while my family, friends and colleagues are out there fighting. Our country won two world wars because the entire country mobilized. We out-produced and we out-manufactured while our soldiers out-fought the enemy. We need to do that again because make no mistake, we are at war, healthcare workers are your soldiers, and the war has just begun.

Let us not overlook that much of our medical supply production was transferred to China during the past decades. Had we been the producer rather than just the buyer, ramping up would have been much easier.

Same goes for a lot of other critical essential tech stuff, as needed e.g. by our military. Really brilliant decision by our past administrations to, of all countries, depend on China. Trump is the only President, since the rise of that fiasco, to make an effort to bring production, critical and otherwise, back home.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Let us not overlook that much of our medical supply production was transferred to China during the past decades. Had we been the producer rather than just the buyer, ramping up would have been much easier.

Same goes for a lot of other critical essential tech stuff, as needed e.g. by our military. Really brilliant decision by our past administrations to, of all countries, depend on China. Trump is the only President, since the rise of that fiasco, to make an effort to bring production, critical and otherwise, back home.

I’m not disagreeing with those points, far to many companies have taken their business elsewhere, my point is this started elsewhere and models from others predicted what would happen in every country this came to and this administration did not gear up quickly or make hard decisions and put out the correct messaging to slow this spread or get the medical supplies manufactured early enough. It doesn’t just fall on Trumps head, but his leadership and downplaying of this has really been terrible. Everyone on this board is entitled to their opinion on how this has been handled, you don’t have to like mine view, feel free to disagree in a respectful and civil way if your capable wink wink.