Logic 101 quiz

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

So in light of what Russia has done, is doing and will do your ok with Trump encouragement of their interference in the 2016 election?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Quite a leap there--from my pointing out how you were wrong--to implying that I'm OK with what Russia is doing and will do.

I'm OK with Trump's sarcasm. I thought it was funny when he said it, and when he said the media would applaud the Russians for exposing Hillary. What's also funny is the idea that Russia needs Trump's encouragement. They been doing this way, way, before Trump. They probably laugh at and are satisfied with accusations that they need Trump's encouragement. They are going to do what they are going to do regardless of what Trump says or doesn't. I'm sure they are happy with the divisiveness that such accusations inspire. You fall right into being a willing victim of their disinformation and its sowing of seeds intended to blossom into discord.

And the Russians were encouraged to "interfere" in our affairs by Progressive leftists in the past, from Academia, NY Times and other "liberal" media, Progressive Politicians, and all sorts of anti-American left leaning groups. And the old Soviet influence in our political affairs is flourishing again now with the Communist Party annexing itself to the Democrat Party. If you don't see the Communist influence in the push of the Democrats to the left, even more openly in some of the rising stars in their party, and old ones such as Bernie Sanders, your being blinded by leftist spin and partisan intentionally driven hate, aided with even the redefinition of polarizing words such as racist and all the phobes, and the attempt to make those on the "right" an embodiment of those manufactured words.

No, I am not happy with what Russia does. And I am not happy with a Democrat Party which is more and more embracing Communist ideals.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

John thanks for the history lesson, but what Russia was capable of doing and the influence that may have resulted in prior to the internet, is like comparing the first gas engine driven car to what circles the track at Daytona.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

No, it is not. It is another in a long line of tools they wield to influence. Hell, they don't even need to change your mind, just cast doubt. Or pit you against your brother.

For a moment put aside the question of whether or not Trump actively asked for assistance from Putin. The fact there is such a disarray over it is what they will exploit. They sprinkle problem seeds (Steele Dossier for example) around where they exist and where they don't exist just to see what takes root.

They have done this for decades with unions, Civil Rights leaders, and a lot of Democrats. They tried hard to flip MLK, he wouldn't. After his assassination, they tried to get remaining civil rights leadership to declare a race war (almost happened, but some prominent leaders would not bite).

You see the same thing today over the past few years with RUS spiking both sides of the Black Lives Matter. Particularly using Social Media.

They have done this countless times, on many subjects, long before the Internet. This is all documented.

Do I think Trump is dirty? Yeh, probably (I know HRC is dirty).

Now for emphasis: Do I KNOW that Trump entered active agreement with Russia to have the election pushed to DJT's benefit? No. This was the bar I needed to see reached with the Mueller Report. It did not.So when the Progressive Left politicians are all wrapped around the axle with Russia, Russia, Russia: Ehhfuk Them. Welcome to the Party Pal (insert Bruce Willis image). The consistently pro-dem party media for DECADES has eaten pro Russia spin. Ehhfuk Them Too.

Originally Posted by detbuch

John just gave a brief overall sketch. If he had filled in the details, you would not have responded the way you did. The direct involvement and participation of Soviet agents and fellow travelers in the FDR administration was absolutely massive and persuasive. It was directly responsible for the takeover of China and other parts of Asia as well as all of Eastern Europe by Communists. The internet influence that Russia exerted in this last go-round amounts to nothing in comparison to what the Soviets accomplished with their infiltration of Roosevelt's administration.

The Green Parties of Western Europe in the 80s protesting US/NATO.
The college campuses of the 30s to a lesser extent and exploded in the 60s (and ever since).
World leaders. Sitting members of congress. Administration people (cough Robert Kennedy - though this one was probably beneficial)

Any pot that can be stirred.

Originally Posted by detbuch

And the Russians were encouraged to "interfere" in our affairs by Progressive leftists in the past, from Academia, NY Times and other "liberal" media, Progressive Politicians, and all sorts of anti-American left leaning groups. And the old Soviet influence in our political affairs is flourishing again now with the Communist Party annexing itself to the Democrat Party. If you don't see the Communist influence in the push of the Democrats to the left, even more openly in some of the rising stars in their party, and old ones such as Bernie Sanders, your being blinded by leftist spin and partisan intentionally driven hate, aided with even the redefinition of polarizing words such as racist and all the phobes, and the attempt to make those on the "right" an embodiment of those manufactured words.

No, I am not happy with what Russia does. And I am not happy with a Democrat Party which is more and more embracing Communist ideals.

^^^ This is all true

[scottw]

geeze John...it's like you dropped a MOAB on the commiecrats

[Pete F.]

Time will tell, much like with Russian interference history cited by others, where information has come out that was not public knowledge at the time it occurred.

Of course all of the information contained in the Mueller report is of no importance, just SOP for Russia, likely prosecutorial overreaches on Muellers part, perfectly acceptable behavior to Trumplicans and some here.

1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin.

2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails.

3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine.

4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska.

5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere.

6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected.

7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump.

8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time.

9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers.

10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases.

11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases.

12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016.

13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations.

14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration.

[scottw]

great work pete...that's riveting stuff

when exactly was Papadopoulos Trump's National Security advisor?

keep digging...I'm sure you will unearth a 15th....

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Now for emphasis: Do I KNOW that Trump entered active agreement with Russia to have the election pushed to DJT's benefit? No. This was the bar I needed to see reached with the Mueller Report. It did not.

So I guess you're OK with a POTUS who's sworn to uphold the Constitution obstructing justice that's just fine and dandy. I guess Putin made him do it because that's what Russians have always done.

Brilliant.