interesting

[The Dad Fisherman]

Are you kidding me Paul, I quoted you in my post where you specifically said they don't drive so they don't need a license.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Are you kidding me Paul, I quoted you in my post where you specifically said they don't drive so they don't need a license.
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And the sentence you quoted did not say they had less "access" to drivers licenses.

So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that.

A lawsuit filed against Alabama in early December 2015 cites the example of a high schooler who can’t vote because she lacks a driver’s license. According to the suit, she needs to get a state issued voter ID at the DMV, but the one nearest to her is only open one day per month and there’s no public transportation to another DMV 40 miles away roundtrip.


During closing arguments in a 2012 case over Texas’s voter ID law, a lawyer for the state brushed aside geographical obstacles as the “reality to life of choosing to live in that part of Texas.”

In a now-infamous remark, Mike Turzai, majority leader of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, praised the state’s legislative accomplishments — including passing a voter ID law — at a 2012 Republican State Committee meeting.
“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” he said.



Reverend Wright, EBD cards - this thread is funny.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And the sentence you quoted did not say they had less "access" to drivers licenses.

So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that.

A lawsuit filed against Alabama in early December 2015 cites the example of a high schooler who can’t vote because she lacks a driver’s license. According to the suit, she needs to get a state issued voter ID at the DMV, but the one nearest to her is only open one day per month and there’s no public transportation to another DMV 40 miles away roundtrip.


During closing arguments in a 2012 case over Texas’s voter ID law, a lawyer for the state brushed aside geographical obstacles as the “reality to life of choosing to live in that part of Texas.”

In a now-infamous remark, Mike Turzai, majority leader of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, praised the state’s legislative accomplishments — including passing a voter ID law — at a 2012 Republican State Committee meeting.
“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” he said.



Reverend Wright, EBD cards - this thread is funny.

"one nearest to her is only open one day per month and there’s no public transportation to another DMV 40 miles away roundtrip"

THAT'S NOT RACIST! Because if a white person lives next door, they are in the same exact boat. That burden is not a function of race, it has nohting to do with race. Those people need to address that with their state.

"a lawyer for the state brushed aside geographical obstacles "

We need to address that. Again, it has exactly nothing to do with race. Race doesn't determine who lives out in the woods...

Paul, you want to argue that it's less convenient for some folks than others to get that ID card, I concede that. But the addiitonal burdens are not a function of one's race.

And if one chooses to live far away from society, that person is absolutely agreeing to accept the consequences of that choice, and not all of the consequences are necessarily pleasant.

"Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” he said."

Again, you are quoting someone who is merely stating he agrees with you. Many times, I asked for the "why", not the "who agrees with you".

You got creamed here. You can't begin to justify the argument that race dictates how convenient/burdensome it is for one to get a photo id.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You can't begin to justify the argument that race dictates how convenient/burdensome it is for one to get a photo id.

Pls. point out where I said it was racist? It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more). I think Tysdad was the person who mentioned racism 1st and then Cool Beans made an assinine comment (but he hasn't come back to follow up so I'm a little unsure what he meant).

It is nothing more than an attempt to lower voting by groups that vote more for Dems. There is no fraud so there is no reason to do it.

Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Pls. point out where I said it was racist? It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more).
?

You never said it was racist.....but you most certainly through the minority card around.

Jims point is that the minority thing has nothing to do with it...which it doesn't....

But it sure does seem like people like to throw the minority card around lately

Originally Posted by PaulS

The voter ID laws bother me less than the shortening of hours but minortities (a higher % vote Dem.) have less need for ID. The most common voter ID is a driver’s license, and minorities are less likely to drive. Minorities are less likely to have driver’s licenses because they are more likely to be poor and to live in urban areas. If you can’t afford a car, or if you don’t need one because you take the bus or subway, you are less likely to have a driver’s license. Students are less likely to have driver’s for the same reason. Driver’s licenses are not the only form of id, but minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID

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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You never said it was racist.....but you most certainly through the minority card around.


and how many times was it stated that people say it was racist? Tysdad's only post said it was racist. Scott claimed it didn't disproportionately disenfranchise minorities and said that was "CRAP"
Jims point is that the minority thing has nothing to do with it...which it doesn't....

But it sure does seem like people like to throw the minority card around lately


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And it looks like the straw man racist card gets thrown around a lot here and quickly.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Pls. point out where I said it was racist? It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more). I think Tysdad was the person who mentioned racism 1st and then Cool Beans made an assinine comment (but he hasn't come back to follow up so I'm a little unsure what he meant).

It is nothing more than an attempt to lower voting by groups that vote more for Dems. There is no fraud so there is no reason to do it.

Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud?

"Pls. point out where I said it was racist?"

Are you serious? You posted this..."minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID"

Your were saying that Republicans favor voter id laws, because that will suppress black turnout, because of the reduced acceess you claim (falsely, and without even trying to support it) minorities have to these ids.

If you lose an argument, better to admit that you lost it, than to deny you made it in the first place.

"It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more)."

That's a choice on their part, a choice not to bear the burden placed on all voters. It's not because of institutional bias.

"There is no fraud "

None? How many examples would you like us to post of voter fraud? It's not rampant, but of course it exists.

"Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud"

(1) What fraud? Didn't you say in your previous sentence, "there is no fraud"? And now all of a sudden, there is a little fraud? Which is it? (2) To answer your question, we do this because we can reduce the fraud even more. Less fraud is good, isn't it? It will only disenfranchise people if they choose to let it disenfranchise them. It doesn't prevent anyone from voting.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Pls. point out where I said it was racist?"

Are you serious? You posted this..."minorities don't have as much access to other legally forms such as Passports, military IDs or other government-issued photo ID"And I told you why. Minorities and students don't drive as much and live in cities so they don't have as much need or in many cases can't afford a car. If you don't want to believe that, that is your problem. Pointing that out, doesn't make me racist. If it was I could call you racist almost every day when you bring blacks into your discussions. - Right?

Your were saying that Republicans favor voter id laws, because that will suppress black Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I? So you bring up blacks out of the blue and call me racist when I never mentioned blacks? Hmm turnout, because of the reduced acceess you claim (falsely, and without even trying to support it) minorities have to these ids.See what I have said a few times here and have repeated it in the 1st paragraph bc for some reason you don't seem to understand it.

If you lose an argument, better to admit that you lost it, than to deny you made it in the first place.

"It affects minorities more (who vote Democratic more)."

That's a choice on their part, a choice not to bear the burden placed on all voters. It's not because of institutional bias.So it isn't a true statement? - I'll save you the trouble, it is a true statement.

"There is no fraud "

None? How many examples would you like us to post of voter fraud? It's not rampant, but of course it exists.

"Why disenfranchise so many voters if as you agree there is so little fraud"

(1) What fraud? Didn't you say in your previous sentence, "there is no fraud"? And now all of a sudden, there is a little fraud? Which is it? (2) To answer your question, we do this because we can reduce the fraud even more. Less fraud is good, isn't it? It will only disenfranchise people if they choose to let it disenfranchise them. It doesn't prevent anyone from voting.

Of course there is fraud - it is so small to be meaningless. If you want to base your whole arguement on the little/no fraud statement go ahead. You'll just look petty. And of course less fraud is good but when 0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote bc you are trying to reduce the minimal (almost non existent) fraud, the costs outway the benefits.


The fact is Repubs. will do anything they can to prevent people from voting whether by Id laws, shortening polling times, refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want) or any other innovative way to vote. And that is Pathetic.

You can't make that wrong.

[Jim in CT]

Paul, I agree that a higher % of blacks don't have driver's licenses than whites. I get that, I do. That's not remotely the issue here, because YOU DON'T NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO VOTE. You can get an alternate photo id. So what I don't get, and what you haven't explained, is this - why is it harder for blacks (who don't have driver's licenses) to get an alternate photo id, than it is for whites (who don't have driver's licenses) to get that alternate photo id? The process of getting that id is the same for everybody, so why is it more problematic for blacks?

If you have 100 blacks, and 100 whites, none of whom have driver's licenses...and you have voter id laws...why is it harder for the blacks to get the alternate photo id, than it is for whites?

"Don't think I ever mentioned blacks - did I?"

You said "minorities". Are blacks a minority, or no? This is exhausting, I posed the only pertinent question above, if you cannot answer it, we all know what that means.

"0,000s of 0,000s of people don't get to vote"

Correction - they choose not to vote. It's a free country. If they can't be bothered to get to town hall to get a photo id like the rest of us, that's on them. Maybe they need a history lesson on the price we have paid to safeguard their right to vote every November. if you don't know what I mean, look at the photos of Arlington National Cemetary.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The fact is Repubs. will do anything they can to prevent people from voting whether by Id laws, shortening polling times, refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want) or any other innovative way to vote. And that is Pathetic.

You can't make that wrong.

Shortening polling times? That helps Republicans? According to your stereotypes of why blacks can't get ids, I would think that shortening poling times helps blacks (and therefore Dems), because they are mor elikely to be hoe all day, and thus can go vote. While the white conservative sare at work all day, making it harder for them to vote.

Can't have it both ways.

"refusing to allow people to automatically be registered to vote when they get drivers licenses (and you can comment on that if you want)"

Fine. Here in CT, you are saying that the GOP is preventing automatic registration? How is that, when the GOP doesn't control anything?

I would suppor that, by th eway, that automatic registration. I reject th enotion that the GOP is blocking it, at least here in CT, because the Dems have conteolled the legislature as long as I have been alive.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that.

That is NOT what I said....I said he walked IN with his social security card and walked OUT with his ID


pretty much everybody that is eligible to vote....should have a valid SSN, correct

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That is NOT what I said....I said he walked IN with his social security card and walked OUT with his ID


pretty much everybody that is eligible to vote....should have a valid SSN, correct

YOu said "My son walked in with his social security card....how much do those cost?"

And I replied "So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that."

So I didn't change or misinterpret anything. I was asking a question. Did your son walk in emptyhanded to the SS office or did he go in with a birth certificate?

I think some people don't have SS #s. Don't know how they get by but that is what I have heard.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

YOu said "My son walked in with his social security card....how much do those cost?"

And I replied "So I can just walk in emptyhanded and walk out with a SS card? Didn't know I could do that."

So I didn't change or misinterpret anything. I was asking a question. Did your son walk in emptyhanded or did he go in with a birth certificate?

We did the responsible thing.....we got it for him when he was born
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