Colorado baker ordered to serve gay wedding or face fines

[spence]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

First I would have simply said that I never made one like that before and I'm afraid I would do a really poor job. If that didn't get rid of them I would say , OK , I'll try but the extra time I will need to design it will mean it costs 3 times as much. If that didn't get rid of them I'd make them a really crappy cake and get paid 3X for it!

Honestly , I think the baker should be able to just say no.

I've never read anywhere they were looking for a non-standard cake. Your making it sound like they were looking for a giant phallus shaped cake that squirted frosting.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never read anywhere they were looking for a non-standard cake. Your making it sound like they were looking for a giant phallus shaped cake that squirted frosting.

-spence

because they could get a "standard cake" anywhere...which is why this is about "forcing" the baker to make a cake for a "non-standard" wedding and not really about the cake itself....

I suppose if they were looking for the cake that you describe and the baker refused to make it...the Judge could just order him to make it or pay a fine or go to jail

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

because they could get a "standard cake" anywhere...which is why this is about "forcing" the baker to make a cake for a "non-standard" wedding and not really about the cake itself....

Maybe the guy made really nice cakes?

So if he decided to not sell to black people would that be ok as well?

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Maybe the guy made really nice cakes?

So if he decided to not sell to black people would that be ok as well?

-spence

it would not be ok in my opinion....but he should have the right to decide whether he wanted to or not and be judged by the market and either flourish or more likely fail based on his decisions....just as a black baker should have the right to not sell to white people, just as a gay baker should have the right to refuse to bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding....forcing them to do so seems like a recipe for disaster so to speak

Originally Posted by Nebe View Post

The baker really screwed up... He should have never ever ever told them that he refused to serve them because they were gay...

so he should have lied.....doesn't that violate both Nebe commandments? or is lying cool ? suppose he had lied about his values and made the cake and the couple found out weeks after the wedding that their cake was made by a raging homophobe @#$^%$# with a mental illness....imagine how painful it would be for them every time that the looked at the wedding pictures and saw that cake...... probably grounds for a lawsuit there too...

personally, I prefer the honest racist, homophobe, sexist, bigot... whatever etc......at least you know where you stand with them and can make a better informed decision as to whether you want to associate with or trust your catering to them ....


Detbuch had a great point, if this couple approached this baker and he'd agreed to make the cake but they then declined citing his religious propensities(or they could lie I guess), could the baker file suit against the couple for discrimination and could a judge force the couple to purchase a cake from this baker?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by scottw

it would not be ok in my opinion....but he should have the right to decide whether he wanted to or not and be judged by the market and either flourish or more likely fail based on his decisions....just as a black baker should have the right to not sell to white people, just as a gay baker should have the right to refuse to bake a cake for a heterosexual wedding....forcing them to do so seems like a recipe for disaster so to speak

Originally Posted by Nebe View Post

The baker really screwed up... He should have never ever ever told them that he refused to serve them because they were gay...

so he should have lied.....doesn't that violate both Nebe commandments? or is lying cool ? suppose he had lied about his values and made the cake and the couple found out weeks after the wedding that their cake was made by a raging homophobe @#$^%$# with a mental illness....imagine how painful it would be for them every time that the looked at the wedding pictures and saw that cake...... probably grounds for a lawsuit there too...

personally, I prefer the honest racist, homophobe, sexist, bigot... whatever etc......at least you know where you stand with them and can make a better informed decision as to whether you want to associate with or trust your catering to them ....


Detbuch had a great point, if this couple approached this baker and he'd agreed to make the cake but they then declined citing his religious propensities(or they could lie I guess), could the baker file suit against the couple for discrimination and could a judge force the couple to purchase a cake from this baker?

Scott...what the difference between not selling to blacks vs gays?? I'd like to hear this logic.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Scott...what the difference between not selling to blacks vs gays?? I'd like to hear this logic.
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I didn't differentiate

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I didn't differentiate

You can pray away the ghey. Oh wait...
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

....


Detbuch had a great point, if this couple approached this baker and he'd agreed to make the cake but they then declined citing his religious propensities(or they could lie I guess), could the baker file suit against the couple for discrimination and could a judge force the couple to purchase a cake from this baker?

Hell no, not unless the baker belonged to some demographic that the liberal stormtroopers have anointed with "victim" status.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never read anywhere they were looking for a non-standard cake. Your making it sound like they were looking for a giant phallus shaped cake that squirted frosting.

-spence

If the baker was asked to bake a "standard" cake by someone who wasn't "protected" by an anti-discrimination law, and the baker refused, could the judge order him to bake the "standard" cake?

[Sea Dangles]

So this is Bloomberg telling you what size soda you can drink. Skits like the soup nazi on seinfeld certainly take on a whole different spin when it is looked upon this way.No soup for you is grounds for a lawsuit.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

If the baker was asked to bake a "standard" cake by someone who wasn't "protected" by an anti-discrimination law, and the baker refused, could the judge order him to bake the "standard" cake?

Why would the baker refuse?

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Why would the baker refuse?

-spence

Because he wanted to. He just didn't feel like it. He got some bad mystic vibes from the guy/gal/it. It was somebody that cut in front of him in a grocery store checkout line. It was his mother-in-law.

Is there some blank space in the anti-discrimination act that can be filled in if the "victim" doesn't fit the right categories?

What kind of fair and equal law allows you to discriminate against one but not another? In selective discrimination laws, aren't there always somebody who is or can be discriminated against, including the one charged with discriminating. Wouldn't just and equal discrimination laws prohibit any discrimination whatsoever? Oh, right, then we would be automatons not humans. How about letting us discriminate so long as we don't deprive someone of life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness (which include the right of personal property and the disposal thereof under the same conditions).

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never read anywhere they were looking for a non-standard cake. Your making it sound like they were looking for a giant phallus shaped cake that squirted frosting.

-spence

I think it was the Judy Garland montage that was Photo-frosted on top that was a little too much.
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