Disaster

[JohnR]

Disaster. Absolute Disaster. Owned by 4 Presidents - not just this guy, though this guy managed to turn the end to sh!t.

The Afghans also own this, very much, more than anyone really. For 20 years, most held their finger up to see which way the wind would blow and most chose not to fight for their safety and prosperity. Some did and will pay for it.

[nightfighter]

Prayers for our troops, sons and daughters, being sent in to save those friendlies still there.....

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Prayers for our troops, sons and daughters, being sent in to save those friendlies still there.....

^^^ THIS

[PaulS]

Sad situation and it will be terrible for Women/girls. I just don't know what else could have been done. I thought Trump (and the other Pres.) did the right thing but the govern. was corrupt, the people had no trust in it and couldn't/wouldn't stand up to demand accountability.

We tried but how much more $ and lives could we "waste" (using the word loosely). We could have been there for 100 hundred years and it wouldn't be better.

[Raider Ronnie]

Nothing to worry about.
Joe will have the situation under control as soon as he figures out which door to enter 🤪
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[Pete F.]

Plenty of blame to spread around

"started by GOP president

"peak troop strength under Dem president

"agreement to leave struck by R

"departure carried out by D

"every one learned what history should have taught: local fighter always knows he will outlast the foreign occupier"

Here’s a basic explanation of how the Taliban accomplished their goal, it’s been twenty years in the making

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...itary-victory/
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[Pete F.]

Mike Pompeo met with Taliban Head of the Political Office Mullah Beradar on September 12, 2020 and November 21, 2020

Beradar is now set to become the new President of Afghanistan.

President Trump had Beradar released from a Pakistani prison in 2018.

In February 2020, the USA government without the Afghanistan government being present, committed them to release 5000 Taliban prisoners. Eventually the Ghani government did and watched them go back into the fight against the people who released them.

The demise of the Afghan government started the first day we sat down with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government.

And surprise the Russians are not leaving their embassy. I wonder why they feel so confident of safety in Afghanistan of all places?
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[spence]

A lot of blame to go around. We definitely should have had a stronger ready presence to ensure Americans could get out safely. Sounds like a lot are still there. Afghanistan needs to decide what they want to look like in the future, not the West.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Mike Pompeo met with Taliban Head of the Political Office Mullah Beradar on September 12, 2020 and November 21, 2020

Beradar is now set to become the new President of Afghanistan.

President Trump had Beradar released from a Pakistani prison in 2018.

In February 2020, the USA government without the Afghanistan government being present, committed them to release 5000 Taliban prisoners. Eventually the Ghani government did and watched them go back into the fight against the people who released them.

The demise of the Afghan government started the first day we sat down with the Taliban and excluded the Afghan government.

And surprise the Russians are not leaving their embassy. I wonder why they feel so confident of safety in Afghanistan of all places?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

And it's Trump's fault.

Originally Posted by spence

A lot of blame to go around. We definitely should have had a stronger ready presence to ensure Americans could get out safely. Sounds like a lot are still there. Afghanistan needs to decide what they want to look like in the future, not the West.

True. AFG needed to fight for their own future.

We should not have closed Baghram until the end. We should have kept the aviation support and intel running, both critical to what part of ANA was fighting.

[PaulS]

And we have a Rep. from Colo. joking about Afghans filmed falling off a U.S. military plane to their deaths on Monday.

Where do we find these people?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

And it's Trump's fault.

You expected different?
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[wdmso]

What we are seeing happening on the Ground in Afghanistan it not America's fault Trump or Bidens fault.. this solely falls on the AFGHAN ARMY who allowed the Taliban to walk right in!

I have been listening to the all the Talking Heads talking about they should have done this or they should have dont that BLA BLA BLA


They all seem to Have this Movie idea of how Military operations are even conducted ... that we push a button and problems are solved .. not sure how you do this draw down. When your 300k security detail disappeared over night .. I guess we should feel Lucky that the Taliban are not in a Hurry, because there's nothing we could do to stop them.. and I think they understand it's in their best interest to wait Seeing they been waiting 20 years what's another few weeks

And My son Runs C-17s out of Travis and they have been flying Afghan mission for months not just yesterday ..

As for Some Not here. playing the BS card .. feeling bad for Vets who deployed to Afghanistan and how bad it must hurt to see your sacrifice wasted all I say to them All please stop the Faux outrage

Americans need to stop worrying about EGO or optics and need to accept the fact we have lost in Afghanistan! American is not perfect and everyone wishes this would have turned out differently but it did not ... all our Nato allies left in June .. And no matter how many more bombs we drop or how longer we stayed would not have change this out Come ....

I read this elsewhere ... Biden did what other POTUS wanted to do but wouldn't or couldn't . leave... He Just Torn off the Bandaid (afghanistan) done! end of story like it or Not ..

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by JohnR

And it's Trump's fault.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

You expected different?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Now as Taliban are taking over Afghanistan (again) we need to look at Taliban. Some are saying the Taliban kicked out the Soviet Union from Afghanistan (totally untrue). So let's do this properly. Who are the Taliban vs Mujahideen vs Pashtu vs Afghan.

There are Maganutters, War-mongering Repulsicans and Saudi bots on the rampage now, attempting to extinguish the Saudi connection to the Taliban. So this Thread is necessary. We need to understand. But we go to the beginning. That is the only way to understand.

The most valuable road for human economic history, for over 3,000 years was the Silk Road, or more accurately Jade Road. It connected the largest landmass, Eurasia, where most of the planet's population live, allowed Europe to trade with China, & all in middle.

Silk Road is not one road, it is a series of roads. One side-road leads to India. That road goes through the mountains, through the ONLY pass, called Khyber Pass. This was the most valuable choke point until the modern shipping. Was the 'Suez Canal' of its age.

As Khyber Pass was the only mountain pass to India, you can imagine it was a rich opportunity for bandits. Those enterprising land pirates became known as the Pashtu. Draw a circle 100 miles around this pass, you have region the size of the state of Virginia.

So for CENTURIES, the Pashtu people were known to collect their fees from travellers on the Silk Road. And nobody was able to take this region from them. Literally, none of the great empires ever succeeded from Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan.
That gives a firm foundation to build a warrior nation. The Pashtu.

They are Muslim, but not like neighboring Iran, who are Shia, the Pashtu are Sunni Muslim, so they align with Saudi Arabia and against Iran. Bear this in mind, with the propaganda parrots.

In the last 200 years, the main Empires that faced off, on both sides of the Khyber Pass were the British Empire (in India, South) and the Russian Empire (North). Afghanistan emerged as the buffer nation between these two. It is 5 miles West of the Khyber pass.

Afghanistan is far larger than the Pashtu region, about the same size as Texas in area. But HALF of Aghan population are Pashtu. There is no other dominant ethnic group, so Pashtu people get to rule Afghanistan. Afghanistan population is about 32 million.

From the early 1800s, the rulers of Afghanistan have played The Great Game, pitting Russian & British rulers against each other & temporarily siding with whoever was the weaker

Pashtu are EXPERTS at pretending to be on your side, while being on their OWN side

Every time the British got fed up, and tried to take over Afghanistan, they lost. Last time in 1921. Same for Russians. They too lost. Last time in 1989 (as Soviet Union). NO EMPIRE has EVER held this region. So that is the Pashtu who form half of Afghanistan

WHO ARE THE MUJAHIDEEN

Now towards the Taliban. A Marxist (Communist) ruler came to power in Afghanistan in 1973. He aligned Afghanistan with the Soviet Union. Many Pashtu felt, oh-oh, now we are losing to Russia & started guerilla war against the Afghan Govt

The Mujahideen (Mujahidin) were Muslim religious warriors against their OWN Marxist-Communist government then in power, in Afghanistan. They were supported by.. Saudi Arabia of course, as well as from their Pashtu relatives in Pakistan, across the border

When the Soviets invaded in 1979, the Mujahideen guerilla warrior army was already in existence and fighting, who turned from fighting a corrupt government in Kabul, to the invader Soviet Army. Mujahideen at this point supported by Saudi & Pakistan

At Soviet invasion, the BRITISH felt a need to stand up against Russia (Soviets) from historical context & supported the Mujahideen fighters, giving them weapons. USA, after Vietnam loss, was doing very little but some token support. The main funding was Saudi

Because of the Pashtu mountain region of centuries of crime, the NATURAL method for Mujahideen warriors was to go to Afghanistan to fight, & retreat to Pakistan side to rest, rearm & recuperate. The Soviets were not going to invade into Pakistan to chase them

This led to refugee camps on Pakistan side. And to TRAINING camps. Trained by who? The Saudis and Pakistanis. And to educate the Mujahideen. Education by who? The Saudis set up extremist religious schools 'Madrasa' to teach fundamentalist Sharia law

The Mujahideen were able to recruit Muslim soldiers to come fight to liberate the Muslim nation of Afghanistan from the Marxist (Communist) and atheist Soviet invaders. One of many foreign volunteers was US military-trained Saudi Arabian named Osama Bin Laden.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lasted 10 years. They never got full control. The Saudis & Pakistanis supported the Mujahideen from the start. British & UAE helped early. Americans help came later, but provided Stinger missiles to shoot down the helicopters

The Mujahideen are some of the bravest, toughest warriors the planet has ever seen, and in 10 years, they kicked out the most powerful army the planet had ever seen. Outnumbered and outgunned to ridiculous levels. They won clean and clear. Soviets lost totally

THE TALIBAN

The Taliban had NOTHING to do with any earlier fights Afghanistan had with invaders, and nothing to do with Russia or Soviet Union invasion either. The Taliban did not EXIST. They were born AFTER the Soviets had left.

You remember, BEFORE the Soviet invasion, in 1979, Afghanistan was in a Civil War. So that was just paused for 10 years, to kick out the Russkies, and then the Civil War resumed

THAT is where suddenly the Taliban is formed. To turn Afghanistan into Sharia Law

The Taliban means literally 'educated' and refers to fanatical students from Saudi taught Madrasa schools. The most fundamentalist of students, who think SAUDI ARABIA is not fundamentalist enough !!! (Saudi is FAR worse than Iran, and some think Iran is bad)

The Soviet invasion ended 1989. The Afghanistan Civil War resumed immediately

The Taliban... was not founded until 1994 by two fanatical clerics, Mullah Omar & Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. They took control of Aghanistan in 1996 (winning the Civil War)

The rogue criminal terrorist led nation of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar was in existence until the US invasion in 2001. During those 5 years only THREE countries recognized the monster nation: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan & UAE. Don't tell me Saudis aren't involved

During the Taliban controlled Afghanistan they turned it into a brutal Sharia Law nation. Then when US and NATO forces invaded in 2001, Taliban retreated into caves to fight this latest invasion. We knew that nobody can take the area. That was a doomed mission

Who supported Taliban from 2001 to 2021? Saudi Arabia of course. It was regularly reported. Even the State Department KNEW this but kept it a secret, as leaked State Dept documents revealed in 2009. Iran sees the Taliban as enemy, so of course Saudi fund them

It gets FAR WORSE with Trump & his corruption with Saudi Arabia. Trump among other things wanted to invite the Taliban to Camp David on Sept 11, 2019. Trump LIFTED SANCTIONS against the Taliban. And Trump released 5,000 Taliban WARRIORS FROM PRISON in Aug 2020

What of Taliban leaders? in 2010 (during Obama) the number 2 guy of Taliban, Mullah Agdar Ghani Baradar was captured and taken into prison in Afghanistan

Then in 2013 the number 1 guy Mullah Omar died of natural causes (Taliban kept this a secret till 2015)

Then in the ultimate #^&#^&#^&#^&-you to the world, Trump released the co-founder of Taliban, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in 2018 - in deal negotiated by Mike Pompeo, a war criminal.

This monster will now run the Taliban controlled Afghanistan

Have a nice day

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Now as Taliban are taking over Afghanistan (again) we need to look at Taliban. Some are saying the Taliban kicked out the Soviet Union from Afghanistan (totally untrue). So let's do this properly. Who are the Taliban vs Mujahideen vs Pashtu vs Afghan.

There are Maganutters, War-mongering Repulsicans and Saudi bots on the rampage now, attempting to extinguish the Saudi connection to the Taliban. So this Thread is necessary. We need to understand. But we go to the beginning. That is the only way to understand.

The most valuable road for human economic history, for over 3,000 years was the Silk Road, or more accurately Jade Road. It connected the largest landmass, Eurasia, where most of the planet's population live, allowed Europe to trade with China, & all in middle.

Silk Road is not one road, it is a series of roads. One side-road leads to India. That road goes through the mountains, through the ONLY pass, called Khyber Pass. This was the most valuable choke point until the modern shipping. Was the 'Suez Canal' of its age.

As Khyber Pass was the only mountain pass to India, you can imagine it was a rich opportunity for bandits. Those enterprising land pirates became known as the Pashtu. Draw a circle 100 miles around this pass, you have region the size of the state of Virginia.

So for CENTURIES, the Pashtu people were known to collect their fees from travellers on the Silk Road. And nobody was able to take this region from them. Literally, none of the great empires ever succeeded from Alexander the Great to Genghis Khan.
That gives a firm foundation to build a warrior nation. The Pashtu.

They are Muslim, but not like neighboring Iran, who are Shia, the Pashtu are Sunni Muslim, so they align with Saudi Arabia and against Iran. Bear this in mind, with the propaganda parrots.

In the last 200 years, the main Empires that faced off, on both sides of the Khyber Pass were the British Empire (in India, South) and the Russian Empire (North). Afghanistan emerged as the buffer nation between these two. It is 5 miles West of the Khyber pass.

Afghanistan is far larger than the Pashtu region, about the same size as Texas in area. But HALF of Aghan population are Pashtu. There is no other dominant ethnic group, so Pashtu people get to rule Afghanistan. Afghanistan population is about 32 million.

From the early 1800s, the rulers of Afghanistan have played The Great Game, pitting Russian & British rulers against each other & temporarily siding with whoever was the weaker

Pashtu are EXPERTS at pretending to be on your side, while being on their OWN side

Every time the British got fed up, and tried to take over Afghanistan, they lost. Last time in 1921. Same for Russians. They too lost. Last time in 1989 (as Soviet Union). NO EMPIRE has EVER held this region. So that is the Pashtu who form half of Afghanistan

WHO ARE THE MUJAHIDEEN

Now towards the Taliban. A Marxist (Communist) ruler came to power in Afghanistan in 1973. He aligned Afghanistan with the Soviet Union. Many Pashtu felt, oh-oh, now we are losing to Russia & started guerilla war against the Afghan Govt

The Mujahideen (Mujahidin) were Muslim religious warriors against their OWN Marxist-Communist government then in power, in Afghanistan. They were supported by.. Saudi Arabia of course, as well as from their Pashtu relatives in Pakistan, across the border

When the Soviets invaded in 1979, the Mujahideen guerilla warrior army was already in existence and fighting, who turned from fighting a corrupt government in Kabul, to the invader Soviet Army. Mujahideen at this point supported by Saudi & Pakistan

At Soviet invasion, the BRITISH felt a need to stand up against Russia (Soviets) from historical context & supported the Mujahideen fighters, giving them weapons. USA, after Vietnam loss, was doing very little but some token support. The main funding was Saudi

Because of the Pashtu mountain region of centuries of crime, the NATURAL method for Mujahideen warriors was to go to Afghanistan to fight, & retreat to Pakistan side to rest, rearm & recuperate. The Soviets were not going to invade into Pakistan to chase them

This led to refugee camps on Pakistan side. And to TRAINING camps. Trained by who? The Saudis and Pakistanis. And to educate the Mujahideen. Education by who? The Saudis set up extremist religious schools 'Madrasa' to teach fundamentalist Sharia law

The Mujahideen were able to recruit Muslim soldiers to come fight to liberate the Muslim nation of Afghanistan from the Marxist (Communist) and atheist Soviet invaders. One of many foreign volunteers was US military-trained Saudi Arabian named Osama Bin Laden.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lasted 10 years. They never got full control. The Saudis & Pakistanis supported the Mujahideen from the start. British & UAE helped early. Americans help came later, but provided Stinger missiles to shoot down the helicopters

The Mujahideen are some of the bravest, toughest warriors the planet has ever seen, and in 10 years, they kicked out the most powerful army the planet had ever seen. Outnumbered and outgunned to ridiculous levels. They won clean and clear. Soviets lost totally

THE TALIBAN

The Taliban had NOTHING to do with any earlier fights Afghanistan had with invaders, and nothing to do with Russia or Soviet Union invasion either. The Taliban did not EXIST. They were born AFTER the Soviets had left.

You remember, BEFORE the Soviet invasion, in 1979, Afghanistan was in a Civil War. So that was just paused for 10 years, to kick out the Russkies, and then the Civil War resumed

THAT is where suddenly the Taliban is formed. To turn Afghanistan into Sharia Law

The Taliban means literally 'educated' and refers to fanatical students from Saudi taught Madrasa schools. The most fundamentalist of students, who think SAUDI ARABIA is not fundamentalist enough !!! (Saudi is FAR worse than Iran, and some think Iran is bad)

The Soviet invasion ended 1989. The Afghanistan Civil War resumed immediately

The Taliban... was not founded until 1994 by two fanatical clerics, Mullah Omar & Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar. They took control of Aghanistan in 1996 (winning the Civil War)

The rogue criminal terrorist led nation of Afghanistan under Mullah Omar was in existence until the US invasion in 2001. During those 5 years only THREE countries recognized the monster nation: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan & UAE. Don't tell me Saudis aren't involved

During the Taliban controlled Afghanistan they turned it into a brutal Sharia Law nation. Then when US and NATO forces invaded in 2001, Taliban retreated into caves to fight this latest invasion. We knew that nobody can take the area. That was a doomed mission

Who supported Taliban from 2001 to 2021? Saudi Arabia of course. It was regularly reported. Even the State Department KNEW this but kept it a secret, as leaked State Dept documents revealed in 2009. Iran sees the Taliban as enemy, so of course Saudi fund them

It gets FAR WORSE with Trump & his corruption with Saudi Arabia. Trump among other things wanted to invite the Taliban to Camp David on Sept 11, 2019. Trump LIFTED SANCTIONS against the Taliban. And Trump released 5,000 Taliban WARRIORS FROM PRISON in Aug 2020

What of Taliban leaders? in 2010 (during Obama) the number 2 guy of Taliban, Mullah Agdar Ghani Baradar was captured and taken into prison in Afghanistan

Then in 2013 the number 1 guy Mullah Omar died of natural causes (Taliban kept this a secret till 2015)

Then in the ultimate #^&#^&#^&#^&-you to the world, Trump released the co-founder of Taliban, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar in 2018 - in deal negotiated by Mike Pompeo, a war criminal.

This monster will now run the Taliban controlled Afghanistan

Have a nice day

Source? I liked this read.... The end was going to be a sh itshow no matter what.

[wdmso]

just read this story


RNC removes page from website touting Trump peace deal..

"It is time for Joe Biden to resign in disgrace for what he has allowed to happen to Afghanistan," Trump said in the statement.

"It shouldn't be a big deal, because he wasn't elected legitimately in the first place," he added.



classic

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Source? I liked this read.... The end was going to be a sh itshow no matter what.

Written by a Finn, Tomi Ahonen
The only clear error I see is that Baradar was imprisoned in Pakistan, not Afghanistan.
Lots of evidence of Saudi involvement in extremist Sunni training, Osama bin Laden was not an outlier. The Wahhabi followers are just as wacky as the Khomeini ones.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by wdmso

just read this story


RNC removes page from website touting Trump peace deal..

"It is time for Joe Biden to resign in disgrace for what he has allowed to happen to Afghanistan," Trump said in the statement.

"It shouldn't be a big deal, because he wasn't elected legitimately in the first place," he added.



classic

If only Trump wasn’t talked out of his desire to bring the Taliban leaders to camp David on the 9-11 anniversary, he could have negotiated a calm peaceful solution, in exchange for land for a new golf course wink wink.

[scottw]

OUCH...democrat on democrat crime...

Congressmen Jim Langevin of Rhode Island, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, has published a scathing piece on Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal at Foreign Policy.

“Public executions and forced marriages are reportedly back. People are fleeing. The Taliban are in Kabul, and the government has fallen. This is a catastrophe,” Langevin writes. “This negligence [from the Biden administration] was par for the course for the last U.S. administration. I am disappointed to see it now. At minimum, the Biden administration owed our Afghan allies of 20 years a real plan. They also owed it to our military service members and their families, particularly the men and women in uniform and their families who gave the ultimate sacrifice. Not to mention the women and girls of Afghanistan who are now experiencing a devastating new reality.”


I actually don't blame Biden....I'm pretty sure nobody is letting him make any decisions on anything.....that would be foolish

[Pete F.]

Politicians always have a simple answer
To evacuate the people who helped us would have required the Ghani government to cooperate. They didn’t because to do so would add to their increasingly visible end.
All the people in power outside the administration in Afghanistan saw what was coming and did their best to make sure they remained in power. It’s a tribal society and will be for the foreseeable future.
Currently the evangelical Muslims are in charge, God squads are dangerous in any country.
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[Pete F.]

Reports from Kabul say:
At kabul airport, military side, more order than before. Evacuations picking up. Seeing more Afghan families being taken through. Planes taking off. Base well guarded.
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[wdmso]

keep seeing the talking heads saying re open Bagram these people are nuts

Bagram is 1.5 drive from Kabul Americans and some visa holders cant even walk and get to the Airport (some say) and is surrounded by the taliban who know where other americans are in the country ,,

then the talking heads they are like well Just push out the security perimeter.. with what ? its a City not some Airfield in the middle of nowhere ..

[detbuch]

https://rumble.com/vlbl2v-the-u.s.-g...o-decades.html

[Pete F.]

Right, because there was a magical way for the US to leave that didn’t cause the Afghan army and govt to collapse. Trump had that plan. He kept it with his taxes and healthcare plans.
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[Slipknot]

Pete obviously did not watch the video Detbuch posted if that is what his last reply was referring to.

If you actually listen to the whole thing with any bit of critical thinking it may open up your mind to what goes on. But I am not speaking to know-it-alls since we know their minds are closed.

Try this one, it is shorter


https://video.foxnews.com/v/6268475740001#sp=show-clips

[Pete F.]

Ahh, the deep state strikes again
Three people paid millions by Murdoch said it on TV, it must be true
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Pete obviously did not watch the video Detbuch posted if that is what his last reply was referring to.

If you actually listen to the whole thing with any bit of critical thinking it may open up your mind to what goes on. But I am not speaking to know-it-alls since we know their minds are closed.

Try this one, it is shorter


https://video.foxnews.com/v/6268475740001#sp=show-clips

We know who minds are closed

Tucker Carlson has claimed that bringing Afghan refugees to the US would be an “invasion”

And if your on his show that doesn’t say much about your standards
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[detbuch]

And the beat goes on.

[Got Stripers]

In our 242 year history the USA has only had 16 years without us being entangled in a war, time to stop the trend and put all that wasted money to better use.

[spence]

Civil war in 3... 2...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

Civil war in 3... 2...

You might not be to far off there, Karnack
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