Disaster

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wait for the mid terms and we can revisit
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so what were you referring to, exactly, when you said that trump cost the gop plenty besides the white house? are you admitting that as of right now, he didn’t cost them
much? the data sure seems to suggest that.

The democrats suffered far, far greater losses under obama. Not even close. and obviously they came roaring back.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Wait for the mid terms and we can revisit
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all Biden has to do, is cure cancer, which he very explicitly promised to do in the campaign, and the democrats will kick butt next year.

Short of that, they might well be the party associated with record inflation ( not all their fault), high gas prices ( not all their fault), lockdowns from delta or subsequent variants ( not all their fault), weird social policies that no one between the coasts has any affinity for (completely their fault), skyrocketing crime ( mostly their fault), etc. if the stock market is still way up, does that save them? maybe. maybe not. history shows that in a new presidents first midterm, his party usually gets clobbered. you want to put all your eggs in a basket tied to a guy who obviously has meaningful dimentia, that’s a risk.

Ballsy? He did say he was a truck driver, and got arrested with Nelson Mandela, and had a street fight with a gang leader named Corn Pop, thats all pretty balls-y.
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[Jim in CT]

“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

“If there’s American citizens left, we’re going to stay to get them all out.”

- President Biden, in a softball interview with ABC news, a few days before he ordered our withdrawal, thereby abandoning between 100 and 200 Americans, leaving them at the mercy of the Taliban.

Is that a “balls-y” move, Got Stripers?
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Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives
lost, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives lost, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Your an idiot Jim if you think evacuating service members or civilians from a war, that SHOULD never have been extended beyond the mission it started on, is anything but messy. Biden pulled our service men and women out of a war they shouldn’t have been in past the original mission and people left behind aren’t lost yet. Our Middle East fu*cked up policy has got way to many US lives, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Irak and Afghan lives, because we are fighting wars we have no business starting or staying in.

Yes Biden had the balls to follow up on his promise to get us out and yes it got messy, but if your an idiot you would blame that on Biden, has nothing to do with anything else, you crack me up. I love poking at the right on this forum, it got old and tired at times, but this one is to rich.

did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

did biden keep his promise to the americans left behind? simple question.
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Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

[Pete F.]

After sulking for the requisite 6 months, He’s back🤦🏻#^&♂️
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

did he promise to use use “other avenues” to eventually get them
out? or did he promise on national television, to stay until they were all out? is that question too complicated for you?

you guys crack me up. i voted for trump twice, but i can immediately admit he’s at best a very flawed individual, at worst someone who belongs in a mental institution for megalomaniacs. i can readily say that, even though i supported him, because it’s obviously true. I don’t need to deny truth to protect my ideology.

You can’t do the same. you can’t simply admit he broke a promise. you’ll bend over backwards, go to any length to avoid any criticism. because it’s not about truth to you folk, it’s about serving the ideology no matter what. protect the narrative at all costs.

By the way, the answer to my question, as everyone knows, s that he broke the promise. might not be his fault, as there’s a meaningful chance he has no memory of what he said three days ago.

But i’m the one with the character flaw, stupidity in this case.

You seem very, very defensive. What are you afraid will happen, exactly, if you just concede he broke a promise?



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[Pete F.]

Twenty more years another 5 trillion and we could save the people who put off leaving, despite being warned for a year.
Of course in twenty years there would be another entitled bunch who would wait for the last plane.
Now personal responsibility doesn’t count anymore, just like character, honesty and the rule of law
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

It was a rolling disaster right after we failed to leave after the initial mission was completed and if you think any administration would avoid a similar disaster knowing the situation as we do now your kidding yourself. Shades of a disaster is all that would vary.

you don't know this....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Now personal responsibility doesn’t count anymore, just like character, honesty and the rule of law

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this is precious.....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Simple answer he has other avenues to get others out, but he held to the deadline, what Jim are you so stupid to think that in evacuation from a war zone, in a tribal Muslim country, it would go as promised, again you crack me up.

suddenly a military operations expert....I think it was promised as a "withdrawal" which has turned into an "evacuation" since biden f*ck*d it up

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

suddenly a military operations expert....I think it was promised as a "withdrawal" which has turned into an "evacuation" since biden f*ck*d it up

Says the military expert who ignores that a withdrawal will turn into an evacuation . when the The Army the US spent 88 billion to train and equip for 20 years and was the primary security for the US , and we expected them to have our back . Yet Decided they could care less if the Taliban took over or what happens to them or their families just laid down ..

That would change thing quickly but again in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! and being outraged is just easier
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Says the military expert who ignores that a withdrawal will turn into an evacuation . when the The Army the US spent 88 billion to train and equip for 20 years and was the primary security for the US , and we expected them to have our back . Yet Decided they could care less if the Taliban took over or what happens to them or their families just laid down ..

That would change thing quickly but again in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! and being outraged is just easier
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Obviously not everything that happens there is Bidens fault. But since Got Stripers says it was inevitable that things would get chaotic, can you explain why we would walk away from our military airfield which was specifically built to make it readily defendable, and rely solely on an impossible-to-defend civilian airpoirt, in a capital city?

"in a conservatives world facts get abandoned! "

In just about every one of your posts on this thread, you are saying that only conservatives are criticizing Biden for the way this unfolded. That's not close to true, he's getting serious criticism from democrats in congress and in the media. How's that for a fact that doesn't matter.

John R and TDF aren't rabid right wingers. It might make you feel better to try and convince yourself that nobody to the left of Sean Hannity is critical of Biden, but that's not the reality.

Try telling Seth Moulton that only partisan right wingers are critical. Moulton is a democratic congressman from Massachusetts, and he's a very progressive, liberal democrat at that. He also did 4 tours in Iraq. Here's his take on what unfolded...

"To say that today is anything short of a disaster would be dishonest. Worse, it was avoidable. "

https://moulton.house.gov/press-rele...in-afghanistan

another comment by Moulton...

"even if you completely agree with the Biden administration’s decision to withdraw, the way they have handled this has been a total f---ing disaster,”

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/arti...abul-trip.html

So go ahead and lie to yourself that all criticism is nothing but partisan politics. The blind partisan on this thread is you, refusing to concede that the politician you support, mismanaged this at all, when people from all sides are saying he did.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

did he promise to use use “other avenues” to eventually get them
out? or did he promise on national television, to stay until they were all out? is that question too complicated for you?

you guys crack me up. i voted for trump twice, but i can immediately admit he’s at best a very flawed individual, at worst someone who belongs in a mental institution for megalomaniacs. i can readily say that, even though i supported him, because it’s obviously true. I don’t need to deny truth to protect my ideology.

You can’t do the same. you can’t simply admit he broke a promise. you’ll bend over backwards, go to any length to avoid any criticism. because it’s not about truth to you folk, it’s about serving the ideology no matter what. protect the narrative at all costs.

By the way, the answer to my question, as everyone knows, s that he broke the promise. might not be his fault, as there’s a meaningful chance he has no memory of what he said three days ago.

But i’m the one with the character flaw, stupidity in this case.

You seem very, very defensive. What are you afraid will happen, exactly, if you just concede he broke a promise?



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Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable

And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ttack-in-niger
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable
And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. B
S. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ttack-in-niger
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"a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet "

No, not just the right. People in both parties are criticizing Biden.

"And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS fake outrage"

You're saying, it's not valid to feel genuine outrage that we left American citizens, and allies who helped us, behind? There's no justifiable reason to be at all critical of that decision?

"now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms"

That's obviously true. that's what's going to happen, just as the democrats used George Floyd as a martyr, or did that not happen?

I don't suspect this will be a huge issue in the midterms next year, but it might be. If it is, it won't help your side.

"Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum"

Yes you did say it, and it was demonstrably wrong both times you said it. Trump campaigned very specifically, on a promise to not get us involved in questionable wars, and republicans liked that promise. The George Bush wing of the GOP is very willing to go to war, as are PLENTY of democrats. Look up the Senate vote to invade Iraq, you know who voted in favor of that war? Senators Harry Reid, John Kerry, John Edwards, Hilary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer...were they all Republicans?

There's a large number of people who have been connected to DC for decades, who feel entitled to get filthy rich off the American public, they all like to beat the war drum, and the come from both parties. Both.

Blind, rabid, thoughtless partisan talking points, it's all you have.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Yes Jim he did say he would get those out who wanted and then said we would stay till all who wanted got out.. and what changed ?

a suicide bomber killed 13 American service members and suddenly The right got cold feet .. outraged and they made it political a nano second after if happened .. screaming.Biden should resign he has blood on his hands ..

in that moment Conservatives made the decision that. Even with 6000 American and 100 thousand others Afghan men women and children rescued
13 American deaths were suddenly unacceptable

And Now since we have left they cry we left Americans behind it all. BS. More fake outrage ..

So here is my question how many marines were Republicans or Americans willing to sacrifice to go save these remaining 100 American who may or may not wanted to leave , and somehow couldn’t get to the airport for what ever reason , even though 6000 did!

1 more 13 more a thousand? The Truth is zero .. and now they will use these 100 American and 13 service members as martyrs in their mid terms it’s classic Republican play book ..

I’ve said it before Republicans love beating their chests and the war drum . Until the bill comes due unless deaths happen under a Republican. POTUS

Look up

The Tongo Tongo ambush or the Niger ambush occurred on 4 October 2017, when armed militants from the Islamic State in the Greater Sahara (ISGS) attacked Nigerien and killed 4 US soldiers outside the village

And this isn’t about Trump is about Republican responses to tragic events

You’ll find no Republican outrage
Except 1 person John McCain
By then a RINO

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ttack-in-niger
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

If you want to say the GOP will politicize this to help win elections, obviously you are correct, they will do that. If you're saying democrats don't do the same thing, you're wrong. Explain why the left makes a huge deal every time a black person is killed by a cop, but no one says anything about the dozens of blacks murdered every weekend in Chicago alone? Answer - black deaths at the hands of white cops, help democrats win elections. Blacks murdered by other blacks don't help democrats win elections. So which scenario gets all the attention, and which gets ignored?

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You're saying, it's not valid to feel genuine outrage that we left American citizens, and allies who helped us, behind? There's no justifiable reason to be at all critical of that decision?

I don’t recall you expressing outrage when Trump pulled our servicemen out, left all our Kurdish allies to fend for themselves and basically gave our bases to Russia. Oh wait that was under a Republican watch.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I don’t recall you expressing outrage when Trump pulled our servicemen out, left all our Kurdish allies to fend for themselves and basically gave our bases to Russia. Oh wait that was under a Republican watch.

You need a lot of work on your comprehension.

Almost no one has a problem with the fact that we got out of Afghanistan. And you're right of course, Trump set that in motion.

But I don't think I've heard a single person say we should stay in Afghanistan indefinitely. What people are criticizing, is the manner in which this administration executed the withdrawal.

You said multiple times, that there was almost no chance our withdrawal wasn't going to become chaotic. That's MORE REASON to hang into Bagram air base, which was designed so that we could secure it, and in fact it was secured. That's MORE REASON to NOT rely on a civilian airport in a capital city. Then there's the broken promise, the report that we inexplicably gave a list of names of Americans and Afghan allies to the Taliban


Since you and WDMSO clearly feel there's no valid reason to criticize, I refer you again to the very harsh criticism lobbed by Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton, a progressive Democrats and veteran Marine who is absolutely scathing in his criticism of how badly this was bungled. What reason does a liberal democrat from Massachusetts, have to unfairly criticize Joe Biden?

Then there's the video of Biden repeatedly looking at his watch as the caskets were coming off the plane, the fact that most of the 13 families said all Biden did was talk about his own son when meeting with them, the fact that he announces to the world that he needs to be instructed which obedient network to call on for questions, his state department spokesman saying that getting stranded in Afghanistan isn't that different from what Americans go through every day who are stranded overseas (because losing your passport in Grand Cayman and getting delayed, is just like getting stranded behind Taliban lines in Afghanistan). It's a sh-t show. And his plummeting approval numbers confirm it.

You may continue with your denial-fest.

[Got Stripers]

Good dodge
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Obviously not everything that happens there is Bidens fault. But since Got Stripers says it was inevitable that things would get chaotic, can you explain why we would walk away from our military airfield which was specifically built to make it readily defendable, and rely solely on an impossible-to-defend civilian airpoirt, in a capital city?

According to the Pentagon it was determined too risky to secure both airports without a significant troop increase above what they already planned for. Baghram I believe is about 60 klicks from Kabul, no way to get people there.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

According to the Pentagon it was determined too risky to secure both airports without a significant troop increase above what they already planned for. Baghram I believe is about 60 klicks from Kabul, no way to get people there.

no way whatsoever, nope. With all the technological advances, maybe someday we’ll have a way to transport humans that distance.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

no way whatsoever, nope. With all the technological advances, maybe someday we’ll have a way to transport humans that distance.
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Sure, because in Kabul you have bus transports for 120,000 people just ready to go. I guess they could have called Greyhound

[Got Stripers]

Don't mess with his outrage, he is hot and rolling out the narratives he likes to hear.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Sure, because in Kabul you have bus transports for 120,000 people just ready to go. I guess they could have called Greyhound

so why are so many military experts saying we should
have held onto Baghram? none of them thought the logistics through?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Don't mess with his outrage, he is hot and rolling out the narratives he likes to hear.

you’re not outraged? everyone else is stupid but you.
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[wdmso]

Jim where is the Answer how many more American was the Republican Party willing to loose to save the 100 people they are now complaining have been left behind ?

Once again they want to have both ways, the biggest baddest military with out the bad parts Death of our troops

From 2006 tru 2020 5600 troops killed in accidents 2700 KIA. And 4200 self inflicted

but seeing dying from accidents isn’t big news like 13 killed a suicide attack the families are no less devastated

Yesterday 5 men are presumed dead after their chopper went down .. no outrage no screams of blood on ones Hands ! Accidents are preventable Deaths in combat are Not…


Some people need to rewatch saving Pvt Ryan .. and realize those marines and Corpsman were not victims of some botched operation .. they all joined and knew the risks and carried on their mission until they died . so 120 thousands didn’t have to… and then the next line of marines carried on doing the same job the next day they didn’t quit they stepped up.. unlike the Republican who chose to use their deaths as poltical props before then even came home.. disgusting


failed to criticize? What I explained why and how 1 plan withdrawal turned into evacuation
The current generals have said what I have said ..

No one is saying thing could have gone better , but better is never defined by those on the right it’s just a statement
Backed up with nonsense We could have just used bagrham which is 1.5 hour drive from the embassy we heard the same nonsense about Benghazi we could have sent marines from the main embassy 8 hrs away or we could have parachuted people in… bla bla bla and now Republicans want hearings Ya ok when the Republicans join the Jan 6th commission then they can try to act as if they care about Americans
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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

so why are so many military experts saying we should
have held onto Baghram? none of them thought the logistics through?
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Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie

Do you hear yourself I trust the retired guy on TV over the actual General conducting the mission


Kinda like the vaccines don’t work but let me get some of that avermectin Logic
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[spence]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie

Plenty of ex military being critical on MSNBC and CNN also, but as you said, they weren't doing the planning.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim who do you think planned the mission ! and the when and why to close that base ! it was the military experts ! not the arm chair experts on FOX or newsmax or Biden with a black sharpie

Do you hear yourself I trust the retired guy on TV over the actual General conducting the mission


Kinda like the vaccines don’t work but let me get some of that avermectin Logic
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the generals who go on and on about the benefits of diversity? Sorry, wearing a uniform doesn't bestow infallability.

The "experts" (military and civilian) get good grades for the total number of people they got out, and they get a big, fat, well-deserved F for how horribly the last few days were managed.

"Kinda like the vaccines don’t work"

I never said anything that stupid. Fully vaccinated. Kinda like saying "defund the police".

Hindsight is always 20/20. Looking back, it sure would have been nice if we had access to a safe, secure airfield during the last few days. As GS said, it was guaranteed to descend into chaos, which again, makes it more critical to have had Baghram.