The absence of "God" from the democratic party platform

[Jim in CT]

A Godless Party Expels the Creator

I'm not a huge Pat Buchanan fan, but boy did he nail it with this line...

"The howlers had it right. God doesn’t belong in that platform. "

[Sea Dangles]

Maybe God is a Republican.
Obama has that effect on everybody.

[Nebe]

The separation of Church and State was a founding principle of our nation.
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[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

The separation of Church and State was a founding principle of our nation.
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"Church" meant the powers of the various religions that frequently interviened in state affairs for most of Europes development. The separation meant, for example, that if the Pope decrees we should go to war, he has no power in the US government. religious leaders cannot define our laws.

This principle has been bastardized to mean that religious beliefs, morals or philosophies have no place in our government. Our entire political foundation was based on religious belief - the constitution, declaration of independce all reference a "god". The beauty is you're free to believe what you want. I am not religious but do not get offended by other religions influence on this country. In fact this bastardization is leading to people losing their freedom as religion gets demonized, mostly by liberals.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

"Church" meant the powers of the various religions that frequently interviened in state affairs for most of Europes development. The separation meant, for example, that if the Pope decrees we should go to war, he has no power in the US government. religious leaders cannot define our laws.

This principle has been bastardized to mean that religious beliefs, morals or philosophies have no place in our government. Our entire political foundation was based on religious belief - the constitution, declaration of independce all reference a "god". The beauty is you're free to believe what you want. I am not religious but do not get offended by other religions influence on this country. In fact this bastardization is leading to people losing their freedom as religion gets demonized, mostly by liberals.

RIJIMMY is correct. "Seperation of church and state" was meant to make it clear that we are not a theocracy, that there is no government-sponsored, official religion. "Seperation of church and state" was not meant to express the idea that we should go out of our way to be atheistic. The founding fathers made it very clear that our founding principles are rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs. They did not try to hide that.

[Nebe]

It meant that religion has no place in the decision making of our government. Thus, it has no place in our decision making for president.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It meant that religion has no place in the decision making of our government. Thus, it has no place in our decision making for president.
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"It meant that religion has no place in the decision making of our government"

I beg to differ...I suggest you read the Declaration Of Independence. Several references to God and government. No one ever told our elected officials that they are required to leave their religious beliefs outside of their offices.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I beg to differ...I suggest you read the Declaration Of Independence. Several references to God and government.

The word God only appears once in the Declaration of Independence..

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

The word God only appears once in the Declaration of Independence..

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

"The word God only appears once in the Declaration of Independence.."

you left out the very next sentence...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

Safe to say that by man's "creator", they meant God?

So the first 2 sentences of the Declaration each make reference to God. We've come a long way from that, to the DNC platform...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

We've come a long way from that, to the DNC platform...

Same can be said about the GOP platform....Unfortunately both sides seem to have lost their way when it comes to the Declaration of Independence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It meant that religion has no place in the decision making of our government. Thus, it has no place in our decision making for president.
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incorrect.
IF so, we do why swear our presidents in with a bible?
Federal courts - swear in witnesses with a bible
Label our currency and motto - In God We Trust?

last line of Gettysburg address -
"that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth".

Eisenhowers D-day address
"Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessings of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking" (OH MY GOD SOUNDS LIKE A CRAZY SARA PALIN!!!)

Roosevelt on Pearl Harbor -
With confidence in our armed forces - with the unbounding determination of our people - we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, Dec. 7, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese empire.

JFK at Cuban Missle crisis -
Our goal is not the victory of might, but the vindication of right- -not peace at the expense of freedom, but both peace and freedom, here in this hemisphere, and, we hope, around the world. God willing, that goal will be achieved.

I guess we have a lot of violations of church and state!

[RIJIMMY]

today, Barak Obama

As painful as this day is and always will be, it leaves us with a lesson that no single event can ever destroy who we are. No act of terrorism can ever change what we stand for. Instead, we recommit ourselves to the values that we believe in, holding firmly without wavering, to the hope that we confess," he said. "God bless the memories of those we lost. And God bless these United States of America."

[The Dad Fisherman]

I guess the big question is, which religions do you allow to influence policy.

Chritianity, Judaism, and Islam all pretty much recognize the same God....but their religions are definitely different in their teachings and beliefs.

Just thinking out loud...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I guess the big question is, which religions do you allow to influence policy.

Chritianity, Judaism, and Islam all pretty much recognize the same God....but their religions are definitely different in their teachings and beliefs.

Just thinking out loud...

"I guess the big question is, which religions do you allow to influence policy."

That is one big question.

I hope the answer is...any religion based on love, tolerance, charity, and the sanctity and preciousness of all life.

[The Dad Fisherman]

They all Claim it...in there own words. Still Different views.

and everyone has individuals that have there own interpretation which doesn't jive with the religion.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

They all Claim it...in there own words. Still Different views.

and everyone has individuals that have there own interpretation which doesn't jive with the religion.

All religions are practiced by folks who are far from perfect. However, only one religion currently has hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of followers who support the notion of slaughtering innocent women and children.

Our country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. In my opinion, those principles are a pretty sure-fire way (though not the only way) to lead a good life, and to help others to lead a good life. If we stick to those principles, we will be OK. If we stray from those principles, we are at risk.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

All religions are practiced by folks who are far from perfect. However, only one religion currently has hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of followers who support the notion of slaughtering innocent women and children.

Our country was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. In my opinion, those principles are a pretty sure-fire way (though not the only way) to lead a good life, and to help others to lead a good life. If we stick to those principles, we will be OK. If we stray from those principles, we are at risk.

But should our Country's Laws and Policies be driven by a religious principle...or should they be driven by the Contitution, And whether they interfere with the 3 core values of the declaration of Independence........Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

But should our Country's Laws and Policies be driven by a religious principle...or should they be driven by the Contitution, And whether they interfere with the 3 core values of the declaration of Independence.......Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

That's a great, deep, profound question. And I'd say, if the constitution and a religious doctrine are at odds, we have to use the constitution as a guide. I'd hate to see a law that says you have to say the rosary, for example.

Although...there was a time when our laws allowed for slavery and segregation...the people leading the charge against those evil institutions, were motivated by Christianity.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Although...there was a time when our laws allowed for slavery and segregation...the people leading the charge against those evil institutions, were motivated by Christianity.

I believe Christianity has also been used to defend both those institutions as well.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

But should our Country's Laws and Policies be driven by a religious principle...or should they be driven by the Contitution, And whether they interfere with the 3 core values of the declaration of Independence........Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

beginning-

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

end-

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.




our country's laws and policies are created through government, our rights are natural "self-evident" rights endowed by our Creator .. the Constitution was written to protect the individual from governement's inevitable infringement on those rights through it's laws and policies...we instituted a govenrment to secure our Constitutional rights and that government is supposed to be limited to and by the enumerated powers ...our country's laws and policies are only "religeously driven" to the extent that those creating laws and policies are "religeously guided"...whether or not they are religeously guided or driven or otherwise, they should not infringe on the rights endowed by our Creator and secured through our Constitution and protected by our government

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

But should our Country's Laws and Policies be driven by a religious principle...or should they be driven by the Contitution, And whether they interfere with the 3 core values of the declaration of Independence........Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?

Our country's laws and principles should be driven by the people. The constitution sets a framework, but doesn't dictate. We have the right to make laws. Those laws could conform with a religion or go against, it's irrelevant. Many peoples moral code is influenced by religion, so it would follow that our laws are. But it doesn't have to be and we shouldn't have a problem if it is or isnt.
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[Sea Dangles]

There are certainly extremists in all religions. Although they claim to have good intentions, they make me nervous regardless of their origins.It is great to have religious freedoms in this country but some choose this platform to assault the rights of others whom they disagree with.

[Raider Ronnie]

Unions = Organized crime
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[chrisjoe13]

You need "magic goggles" to see god..

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by chrisjoe13

You need "magic goggles" to see god..

And what goggles would you need to see in the Constitution those non-existent federal powers that progressives, and those who "believe" in progressivism, see?

Perhaps there are different types of "magic." There is the magic of the unseen that moves the human spirit, and there is the flim-flam slight of hand "magic" that tricks us into seeing what is not there.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by detbuch

?
Perhaps there are different types of "magic." There is the magic of the unseen that moves the human spirit, and there is the flim-flam slight of hand "magic" that tricks us into seeing what is not there.

And that, sirs, is as good an explanation of how religion works as you are going to see.

[detbuch]

[Originally quoted by detbuch: "Perhaps there are different types of "magic." There is the magic of the unseen that moves the human spirit, and there is the flim-flam slight of hand magic that tricks us into seeing what is not there."]

Originally Posted by numbskull

And that, sirs, is as good an explanation of how religion works as you are going to see.

Well . . . no. Different religions and different types of religions "work" in different ways. I am not "religious" in the sense of adhering to a dogmatic faith that celebrates the Creator with formal rituals or remembrances or artifacts or representations. I do have a growing sense, if not a belief, that there is something other than the material world that is "too much with us." My reference to the human spirit is a portion of that "something" or "Creator" which encompasses the mystery of existence and inspires so much beyond the flesh we are bound and heir to. I believe it is that human spirit that motivates us unwittingly to mimic that Creator by crafting our own minor creations, whether art, or technology, or civilizations, or the quest for "truth." I have a fuller understanding of Keats's "beauty is truth, truth beauty--That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know" which so mystified me as a young college freshman.

Though there are flim-flam clerics, there are also true believers. I see true believers in their religion as an expression of spirit and its connection to a Creator. The trappings of religion may seem silly to non-believers, but may be seen as a beautiful human creation to those who do not know how other to connect their spirit to their "unseen" Creator.

But there are other types of "religion." Secular "religions" which replace a supernatural Creator entirely with human creation. Various philosophies and systems of government, for instance. Progressivism is one such philosophical system of government, and one that has specialized in the slight of hand transformation of American government by tricking us into seeing things in our Constitution that are not there. That was the real point of my comments, certainly not about how religion works.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by detbuch

[Originally quoted by detbuch: "Perhaps there are different types of "magic." There is the magic of the unseen that moves the human spirit, and there is the flim-flam slight of hand magic that tricks us into seeing what is not there."]



Well . . . no. Different religions and different types of religions "work" in different ways.

Though there are flim-flam clerics, there are also true believers. I see true believers in their religion as an expression of spirit and its connection to a Creator. The trappings of religion may seem silly to non-believers, but may be seen as a beautiful human creation to those who do not know how other to connect their spirit to their "unseen" Creator.
.

Well actually.....yes.

You grasp only part of it......the bit about religion being a means of connection to something greater, which clearly humans long for whether you call it God, and Creator, Love, or Common Humanity (in the case of secularists).

The trouble is that organized religion codifies that connection. This makes it easier for its members to find the connection, but it also serves to separate them from the remaining majority of humanity. History is full of examples of the inhumanity that results, and certainly Christianity is right up there with the worst offenders.

The means of codification entails creating a deterministic, anthropomorphic "God", who speaks to his priests and conveys his wishes to those who have created him. This empowers those who interpret God's wishes for the rest of us. When humans are empowered bad stuff results more often than good stuff. Flim-flammary at its worst, for sure.

An excellent read for anyone interested in the process of organized religion is the "History of God". It is a fascinating recounting of the history behind the major religions and how religious dogma evolved to reflect the hand (and agenda) of man far more than the hand of God.

This is not to bash religion. I go to church and get a lot out of it. Religion at its best is wonderful stuff, but religion at its most literal is not.

[chrisjoe13]

I meant Urim and Thummim.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by chrisjoe13

I meant Urim and Thummim.
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Thanks for the "revelation." Was unfamiliar with Urim and Thummim so I had to look it up. None of the explanations mention "seeing" God. Some religions create "images" of God or gods which other religions call false idols. So-called Judeo-Christian religions don't seem to purport an actual "seeing" of God, rather they require a belief in God, sort of a blind belief rather than a "seeing is believing" faith. On the other hand, there is a mystical aspect to Christianity, and to religions in general, that "sees" nature and the physical universe as the handiwork of God. So that everything you "see" is, in some pantheistic way, an identification of God, so, in a sense, you "see" God when you "see." So you don't need "magic goggles to see god." Your God-given eyes will do just fine.

Anyway, I was just using your statement as a comparison to the Houdini like magic of progressive transformation of the Constitution. Perhaps that is of less importance to you than seeing God. Quite understandable.