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OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...go figure
I'll go first, but I should clarify the fact that I have no issue with anyone of any race, creed, color or belief or previous residence somewhere else in the solar system that comes to the good ole' USA through our generous "legal" channels and creates a life for themselves and their future generations abiding by our laws and traditions. I believe that while we are a society of vast differences individually, what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.
For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American, might be a little controversial for some, but hey, we're just talkin', right? The two just simply just can't co-exist and the former has been an utter failure everywhere it's been tried and the latter has resulted in great progress and unparalleled advancement for the entire globe...I know that's fogotten a lot....but it's true...
one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..and I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry), governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment, American citizens that trave abroad and use their status to trash their own country and prop up thugs that seek out demise...
so where do you draw the line....it will be drawn in this election
one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..
um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
I'd love to know which liberty you feel you have personally lost?? Hold on, you aren't one of those guys claiming to have seen Cheney behind the wheel of a utility truck outside your house with Bush hanging from a telephone pole listening in to your conversations with a 1-900 hottie are you??? These "facists" are constantly accused of trampling the rights of average americans and there's never any evidence...kinda like all of the disenfranchised voters that are claimed whenever the Repub.'s win an election and then never materialize... just talking points...looped over and over till it becomes part of the conversation...no basis in reality....real loss of liberty will result from government run everything, which is what both dem candidates are proposing and deeply hold as a belief system...don't fret Comrade...you have a 50/50 chance!!!
um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
I'd love to know which liberty you feel you have personally lost?? Hold on, you aren't one of those guys claiming to have seen Cheney behind the wheel of a utility truck outside your house with Bush hanging from a telephone pole listening in to your conversations with a 1-900 hottie are you??? These "facists" are constantly accused of trampling the rights of average americans and there's never any evidence...kinda like all of the disenfranchised voters that are claimed whenever the Repub.'s win an election and then never materialize... just talking points...looped over and over till it becomes part of the conversation...no basis in reality....real loss of liberty will result from government run everything, which is what both dem candidates are proposing and deeply hold as a belief system...don't fret Comrade...you have a 50/50 chance!!!
The government if it sees so fit, can tap my phone, read my emails, intercept my mail at a drop of a hat if it wants to without approval from a court. If questioned, the goverment can simply say, "f-you.. its classified" and go on its merry way. That is a huge right to privacy violation. Whats next?? no more search warrents? I read that police in Mass have been going to peoples houses and 'asking' the owners if they can look around for guns.. soon they wont have to ask.
If you ask me, the goverment is so concerned about gun control because there could be a revolution in a few years if our current problems are not fixed.. on and most of our problems have not been created by our goverment, but they certianly have been fertilized and given good sunlight by them
I read that police in Mass have been going to peoples houses and 'asking' the owners if they can look around for guns.. soon they wont have to ask.
If you ask me, the goverment is so concerned about gun control because there could be a revolution in a few years if our current problems are not fixed.. on and most of our problems have not been created by our goverment, but they certianly have been fertilized and given good sunlight by them [/QUOTE]
and the "govenment" in the socialist republic of Massachusettes is run by......DEMOCRATS....Coupe de Ville Patrick, protege of Barak Obama...this is too easy!!!!!
I think you may have confused nationalism with patriotism.
In this country you have the right to question your government by utilizing your freedom of speech and freedom of press. I am pretty sure Madison and Unger, oops I mean Adams, would agree with that.
Blindly following a corrupt leader has alao proven to be an utter failure time and time again.
So your argument is that we have been and are today standing on the principals that formed this nation, and that this election represents a potential move away from that position?
So your argument is that we have been and are today standing on the principals that formed this nation, and that this election represents a potential move away from that position?
-spence
bwaaa haaa haaaa....
our pricipals went out the window the moment we went into Korea. For that was the first war that we fought that was based on 'ideals'
I'm sure that you were pretty upset and consider the current admin. un-American when Bush admitted recently that he lied previously when he had said that he thought the war was going fine even though he thought otherwise b/c he felt the American public couldn't take the truth.
In addition, his hiring actors to pose as reports in press confrences and lob questions at him, his producing fake news releases to promote his idea how the war was going, paying a conservative to go on tv and promote his educations initiatives, his having former military officers go on tv and act as analysts after receiving talking points from his lackeys must also make your blood boil that Bush did all he can to undermine many of the principals this country was founded on.
For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,
I thought I was clear....maybe not....
I get the impression that there's a lot of support for Marx and his vision out there
For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American
You're dodging my question.
By the way, I find your statment above to be quite anti American.
For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,
I thought I was clear....maybe not....
I get the impression that there's a lot of support for Marx and his vision out there
So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.
Its that Black and White for you huh?
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
[QUOTE=The Dad Fisherman;586391]So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.
not as long as they follow orders....but I would say that if they are deeply steeped in Marxist theology, they might be fighting on the wrong side....I'm guessing there are very few...
not as long as they follow orders....but I would say that if they are deeply steeped in Marxist theology, they might be fighting on the wrong side....I'm guessing there are very few...
That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.
"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
ScottW, sounds like your views are in the minority of what most Americans believe and perhaps you should re-examine them as they infact, may be "Un-American".
That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.
I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??
Scottw - Marxism is pretty widespread. I majored in Econ at UMass and it was the pervasive (sic) thoery in the department. What I'm saying is that Marxism is pretty popular and state-sponsored. Don't worry about the elitism. While it makes you feel bad, it also makes it nearly impossible to win a national presidential election, so it all evens out in the end.
Ben Franklin was being short sighted, but considering the times in which he lived I think he can be forgiven. There is in inherent inverse relationship between safety and liberty. We would be more free without police, for instance. Maybe all that time in France clouded his judgement.
I agree, by the way, that we need to reduce the size of government in order to make us all more free. You think Hillary or B. Hussein Obama are going to do that?
Nebe - some people feel that the founding fathers put the Second Ammendment in the constitution as a "doomsday" clause. I hope those homeowners tell the police to go to hell.
Every once in a while something draws me out of my Lurkdom
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
that should grab...
OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...go figure
I'll go first, but I should clarify the fact that I have no issue with anyone of any race, creed, color or belief or previous residence somewhere else in the solar system that comes to the good ole' USA through our generous "legal" channels and creates a life for themselves and their future generations abiding by our laws and traditions. I believe that while we are a society of vast differences individually, what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.
For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American, might be a little controversial for some, but hey, we're just talkin', right? The two just simply just can't co-exist and the former has been an utter failure everywhere it's been tried and the latter has resulted in great progress and unparalleled advancement for the entire globe...I know that's fogotten a lot....but it's true...
one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..and I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry), governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment, American citizens that trave abroad and use their status to trash their own country and prop up thugs that seek out demise...
so where do you draw the line....it will be drawn in this election
Everything he said is
You post reads an awful lot like a manifesto. But it lacks any facts, substantiated claims, real ideas or solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
that should grab...
what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.
So the Constitution should never be changed? Then you would have opposed Amendment XIII Ending Slavery? Amendment XIX Womens’ Suffrage? Amendment XXI Ending Prohibition? Do you consider these amendments mere “tinkering”?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American
To what political ideology which is espoused by whom are you referring? I’m not aware of any candidate that wants to abolish capitalism as Marx would have. Can you show me where you read that? Can you show me some evidence? A quote? Even a misquote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version
Surely you would not approve of a government that would establish secret prisons where they engage in torture and then lie that they even exist. That sounds like Stalin. Are you a fan of Stalin? Last I checked there was something in the Constitution about the right to a trial….and a ban on cruel and unusual punishment? Are those human rights or just American rights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry),
When have Kennedy and Kerry attacked those who defend us? Again, cite some evidence please. I thought you were referring to the Bush Administration which exposed a CIA operative (defender of the U.S.), risking her life for their own political gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
…governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment,
I agree. Immigration policy and enforcement is a function of the federal government. So I’m sure you opposed the Gov. of RI who asked State and local police departments to investigate matters involving immigration. (The Prov. Police chief refused). Or do you agree with Gov. Carcieri’s “own little social experiment” which circumvents the federal government's authority set forth the Constitution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...
You haven’t listed any specific “stupid stuff” or who has done it and when. Yet somehow it is a mystery to you that people would “whine” that they are unfairly labeled. Should we enjoy being unfairly labeled? Your entire post was all label and no fact!
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw
For me it's simple..black and white ...
I agree. Your unsubstantiated opinions are indeed simple-minded.
You just have to love freedom of speech and freedom of press. It's as American as you can get.
It allows a windbag to denounce anyone who does not share the same point of view as dumber, a marxist, a fascist, whatever you want to categorize people as.
Even moreso, it allows he who shouts loudest, more often, or uses bigger vocabulary to proclaim himself the victor. Hip-hip-huzzah!
Political debates are similar to religious debates. No matter what is said or done, there is ZERO chance that the opposing party will change their point of view.
Who am I? Why am I here? I guess I was somewhat offended by being called UnAmerican and Unpatriotic. Being called dumber, never bothered me. i'm used to it.
"For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American
one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it .."
OK Dad, there they are, I was pretty clear in the first paragraph...Marx/Mao
second...party run and funded(I'm adding this because I clarified later- George Soros et.al) by folks who would love to shove Marxism...
never said all dem's are Marxists...got it? still love ya...
Spence, I think Joe Lienerman might strongly disagree that the party has now swerved way left...
look, this is a political forum right? it would be kinda boring if we all agreed on everyhting and the Enlightened among us wouldn't get to excercise the muscle of their giant brains by pummeling a know- nothing like me into submission right? think of me as your personal trainer for your brain...I feel bad for some of you with all of that anger and frustration built up inside, didn't take much to poke the volcano..
I've stated that I believe that Marxism and the slavery to a government that it requires is baaaaaaad....
I believe that the massive expansion of the government nanny state being promised by both dem candidates has it's roots in Marxist theory...
I believe that this is in direct opposition to the principles that this country was founded on and by that standard unpatriotic and un-American..
call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?
call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?
Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...
"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland" (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.
Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...
Hybrid Mode
