Michael Moore movie Sicko

[thefishingfreak]

As a hard working american who pays over $1,000 per month for health insurance, copays, rx's etc.

I would highly recomend this movie.


Having thoughts about moving out of country.

[Swimmer]

Thier is more BS in this movie than thier was in Clinton's speech about not having sex with that woman!

If things are so good in Cuba then why are all the Cuban doctors moving to this country. The only ones who aren't coming here are the doctors that have family in children in Cuba. Why, because Fidel wont let them all travel at the same time.

[basswipe]

If Cuba's so great why doesn't that fat,rich slob move there?

The answer's easy.He can't get fat and rich there.

Any idiot can bend and manipulate the truth to make their point of view look good.And with some clever editing make it look like the absolute truth.F911 was a fine example of that.

Moore's an a-hole,plain and simple.Ken Starr and Moore should get together for tea some time.

[spence]

I'm no fan of Moore, but from what I've heard this movie is actually pretty good. The idea isn't that Cuba is perfect, but rather that we can and should be doing a much better job of providing with the resources we have available.

Our healthcare system is pretty f'ed up when you think about it. I'm not sure a single payer system is the way to go, but what we have today is terribly inefficient and simply not scalable.

-spence

[basswipe]

Originally Posted by spence

Our healthcare system is pretty f'ed up when you think about it. I'm not sure a single payer system is the way to go, but what we have today is terribly inefficient and simply not scalable.

-spence

That's an understatement for sure.

This country needs to stop sending billions overseas to "save" others(including illegals here)from poverty and bad healthcare and start taking care of our own.

[thefishingfreak]

the idea is not that quba is so great, it is that at least cuba does not refuse ANYONE treatment because they are not insured or do not have the money/insurance for treatment.

the same with Canada, Great Britan, France and a list of other countries. i believe usa was ranked 27'th in the world for health care.

CNN suposedly fact checked this movie and has proven Moore's facts and points are not distorted.

not trying to stir a political debate or love/hate michael moore thread here. I really could care less about him either way.

I'm simply stating the movie was worth watching.

[Raven]

freak the place to go visit is Belize....then decide if you want to live there.

the fishing is incredible.

[gone fishin]

Mike - you are right on. It would do everyone good to see that movie. Our healthcare system is one that not only screws the people, but also is driving the doctors out. I just had to change my primary after 25 years because he cannot fight the HMO's to get the treatment his patients need.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

Having thoughts about moving out of country.

So move if it sucks that much for you hear, good luck in Cuba, im sure its waaay better than the US!

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by Skip N

So move if it sucks that much for you hear, good luck in Cuba, im sure its waaay better than the US!

if you have not seen the movie, you should keep your jabs to yourself.
the movie is not about CUBA..
Not saying the US sucks so bad.
I sure could use a $1,000.00 per month raise..

wait till someone in your family gets really sick, then see how great the us healtcare system is.

[stripersnipr]

Seriously now guys, do not make life altering decisions based on Michael Moore "facts".

Take a good hard look at his picture and ask yourself: "Is this a guy whose advice I should listen to regarding health care?

If I get real sick, I'd much rather do it here than in Cuba. It's hard to put much faith in the healthcare system of a country who see's Toilet Paper as a luxury item, but believe what you want.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

wait till someone in your family gets really sick, then see how great the us healthcare system is.

the key to health ......is the prevention of disease

Doctor's don't have the time to teach you... NUTRITION

this is something you have to do on your own....

I wholeheartedly recommend this book ....
for you to learn about the super foods and how to make the right choices
>>>nutritionally speaking<<<

you can find it if you look around for under $5.00 dollars
and it will be the best five dollars you have ever spent by far

[Swimmer]

Freak I am sure you have jusification for your angst. However, when you quote CNN, (the first biased news business in the world, and the first one to actually try to push people in certain directions because we are not smart enough on our own) as a reference for your reasoning I take exception. As with all of Moore's work any truth he alledges to state in his films is only about 1/3 correct. He fails to tell the whole truth 100 % of the time.

Also, and this is slightly off track, he says he doesn't own any stock, thats bull%$%$%$%$. His production company, which is wholey owned by Moore owns several million dollars worth of stock. And guess what, the stocks are vizor (sic), merck (both pharmacuetical manufacturers), and others of whose hands he goes out of his way to burn in his movies to make his arguments/hysteria seem valid. He is a buffoon, liar, and hypocrite. It is easy to stand around and ridicule vitrtually anything, especially health care, because we all have a personal interest/risk in this regard. We all have horror stories to tell, as they relate to friends and familly members. And regardless of who you work for we all pay too much for insurance. I equate Moore with Ann Sheehan, someone who is too stupid to realize thier initial fame had to do with being used by the liberals.

One thing I keep telling myself in regard to medical care is that it is not an exact science, no two doctors are alike as are any two medical facilities. When my wife had a mastectomy/then chemo 12 years ago I firmly believe that it was my wifes faith in herself that brought her through the ordeal. She looked me in the eye and said it was not going to beat her and it didn't. That does't come in any insurance policy. You can't buy it. Attitude quite probably is the best medicine thier is.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

wait till someone in your family gets really sick, then see how great the us healtcare system is.

heres a story- my mom is experiencing liver failure right now and is on a transplant list. If she looses the health insurance that is provided to her at her job, she can not and will never able to afford the operation if she ever gets a new organ...She is forced to keep on working her job to the point of exhaustion for only a few hours a day so they wont fire her, because if they do, she will loose her insurance-

If this country took care of those who needed help, she wouldnt be forced to continue working so she can get this operation-

the system is geared for those who can afford it. If you cant afford insurance, your screwed.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

When my wife had a mastectomy/then chemo 12 years ago I firmly believe that it was my wifes faith in herself that brought her through the ordeal. She looked me in the eye and said it was not going to beat her and it didn't. That does't come in any insurance policy. You can't buy it. Attitude quite probably is the best medicine thier is.

I think most doctors will tell you that will is critical to surviving cancer, and your entire family is blessed your wife has it...

That being said, there's no substitute for some really powerfull and expensive drugs, that in this country the worthy are able to get.

I'm personally more than aware of the business considerations...I've done much homework on the Pharma industry as a whole.

But again, the point really is about how we're dealing with the problem as a whole...and in this context there are some very troubling signs.

It's not that the care in the USA is terrible, it's that we think it's much better than it may really be.

-spence

[zacs]

Democrat
Republican
Liberal
Conservative
Fascist
Commie

I don't care what you are, you have your head in the sand if you don't see the fact that our healthcare system needs to be fixed.

The point of the movie is not that "cuba is so great."

The point is "how crazy is it that even a f'ed up place like cuba has a better healthcare system then the most powerful nation on the planet."

It is a true non-partisan topic IMHO.

It is a shame that Moore made the movie because he carries such a left-wing whackjob reputation.

[Squid kids Dad]

Health care system may be better...But who has the BEST hospitals? The BEST care..

[zacs]

not us.

i don't think we are in the top 10.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Raven

the key to health ......is the prevention of disease

Doctor's don't have the time to teach you... NUTRITION

this is something you have to do on your own...

Ya but Rav, that means taking Personal Responsibility.
That's too much work.

I realize these are generalities but:

People don't take care of themselves as evidenced by the obesity, heavy drinking, smoking and lack of exercise by the average Joe.

Then someone gets sick from abusing their body for 50 years and complain that they have to spend $5 a day for meds to keep them

out of the hospital ,or alive ,and expect everybody else to pay for their medical expenses .

Meantime, they have been spending $6/a pack for cigs and who knows what for booze and junk food everyday
without blinking an eye.

Then if something goes wrong, they lawyer up for a medical suite.

Meantime the Docs have to protect themselves from law suites by ordering every test possible for a complaint or get sued
for not covering all the bases.
Their mal practice insurance costs are astronomical.

Ya, genetics do play a part, but even then there are prevenitive measures people can take ,if they choose.


Don't know much about Michael Moore, but from the pics i've seen of him,
he looks like he could take a little betta care of himself and eat a few less saucesedgees.

[zacs]

let me re-phrase.... if you have the money, we have some of the best care in the world.... for the average person we are not even in the top ten.

[fishbones]

A lot of the best doctors from the U.S. either stop practicing medicine or practice in other countries now. Or, they go into a form of medicine where they do not deal with patients (and insurance companies). The main reason for this is the malpractice insurance. I have a friend who is a cardiologist and we have spoken about the health care problems here in the U.S. He says that he had to go into practice with a group of other doctors because it was too expensive for him to be out on his own. The number of bogus lawsuits brought against doctors and hospitals has gotten way out of control. Everyone wants to sue sombody for any reason and unless something changes, the only doctors practicing here will be foreign doctors with degrees from Guam or the Philippines. American born doctors are fed up with the malpractice insurance and the medical insurance companies. The bulk of new doctors practicing in the U.S. are foreigners because even with it as bad as it is for them here, they can make a better living here than in their home country. This country has to put an end to the frivolous medical lawsuits and then things will fall more into line with where they should be. The doctors pass their higher cost of doing business on to the insurance companies, then they pass those costs on to the consumer by way of higher co-pays, higher premiums, etc... That fat blowhard Moore should do his next movie about all of the deadbeats living in this country who contribute nothing, but use all of our resources to live without working. Oh wait, those are his people.

[Raven]

I should have gone into medicine....

saying seriously... you should be a Doctor...

because of conversations i've had with them

they know how much i understand the whole

human health subject...

I simply reply it's not worth it now ! because of the price
of malpractice insurance.... shaking my head in disgust....

and they always have replied.... your a smart man..

JPI and Spence... Health can be achieved thru the selected use of herbs as our medicine many times, unless a stronger drug is required
but even those specialty drugs have huge health issues connected to them in the form of side effects to the point that it's almost worse than
the origional health problem you started with.

Just like the war that continues to go on
concerning illegal drugs.... and the money value placed apon them because of it... legal drugs are considered to be safe by most peoples
understanding of them , where as herbs are lots of times considered to be a joke or quackery....ineffective ...worthless or even dangerous ALL because of the POWER the pharmaceutical companies have in making them appear that way...when in reality almost all of our modern medicines
have found their origins from natural substances like herbs or even sea life.

This climate of fear and false information is finally changing and now the East coast is catching up with the times that were seen in the late 70's out in California... it's truly sad to think of certain good medicines that could be.........
offered to the general public and are not....just because the profit margin is so low... so they skip over it entirely.

Pharmaceutical scientists are scouring the globe looking for unusual chemicals found in worms, frogs ,spiders ,plants, flowers ,insects, and under sea life from two miles down... and the difference is....that now we can go inside the molecule
via virtual reality and take a good hard look at the puzzle from the inside out.... then they have an easier time reproducing that compound artificially.

[Flaptail]

Mike, socialized medicine harks back to socialism ie: communism. The red plague. No good gun loving, tax evading, John Wayne adoring red blooded neo-con republican would ever let that happen.

Besides what would the phamaceutical, health care lobbyists do for a living if they couldn't fatten the pockets of the CEO's and lawmakers, for whom they contribute ,millions into campaigns for election and re-election while they legally steal every penny they can from working class americans?

Perish the thought! Put on your rose colored glasses so yiou can see straight will you?

It's just not the American way. Ask Skip N and his friends, they will set you straight. %$%$%$%$%$%$%$s always win!

[Thom]

So let see you are okay with the goverment telling you witch doc. is going preform the operation on you and when if ever the are going to do it. I

[stripersnipr]

Why anyone would want to place the health care of themselves and loved ones into the hands of a government bureaucracy is beyond me. Isn't this the same govt that some of you spend countless hours b*tch*n about because of their ineppitude and inefficiencies? Tell us again how they are going to get it right this time? You can trust the Government, I'll pay the Doctor.

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

You can trust the Government, I'll pay the Doctor.

Easy for you to say Mr. Bling Bling Rolex go daddy

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by spence

Easy for you to say Mr. Bling Bling Rolex go daddy -spence

[justplugit]

Alot of problems with government controlled health care, call a spade a spade, socialized medicine.

Worst of which imho, is how are you going to get qualified people to go into medicine?

Who is going to give up 4 years of college, 4 years of med school and 2-3 years of residency and maybe another 2 years for a fellowship,
to have some bueracrat tell them they can only charge x$ per patient/ procedure?

Most of these Docs don't get established until they are 28 or 30 years old and have not only given up those earning years
but have debt up the wazoo to pay for their education.

[Raven]

and it's these same stupid people that are saying artificial sweetners are A-ok
....and the preservatives in meat are just fine and the growth hormones in milk
and meat is just swell (<- notice my choice of words) for ya....

thats why half the women or more in this country have fibroids in them...

you don't hear old Hillary talkin about that now -> do ya?

it's all about going under the knife and inexpensive proceedures...
out patient trickery and quicky operations...

OH and here ! have some friggan drugs so
ya won't feel what the hell we just did to ya for several weeks.

oops almost forgot...your schedualed for another MRI so i can get another 1000 dollar kickback from the clinic...

thats their IDEA of health care .......

[Backbeach Jake]

[QUOTE=Flaptail;516446]Mike, socialized medicine harks back to socialism ie: communism. The red plague. No good gun loving, tax evading, John Wayne adoring red blooded neo-con republican would ever let that happen.
Besides what would the phamaceutical, health care lobbyists do for a living if they couldn't fatten the pockets of the CEO's and lawmakers, for whom they contribute ,millions into campaigns for election and re-election while they legally steal every penny they can from working class americans?

Perish the thought! Put on your rose colored glasses so yiou can see straight will you?

It's just not the American way. Ask Skip N and his friends, they will set you straight. %$%$%$%$%$%$%$s always win![/QUOTE]

Hey! those are the same people who will be among the last to collect on their Social Security. Irony? No hypocrasy. I may have told this before. We were discussing this very subject at work, and one Kool-ade drinking true believer stated that that was the price of our Freedom. Our Russian guy asked " What freedom, I'm no more free here than at home" Snapped my head right back.