Action...

[fishatin]

I love all the great looking plugs on the site and was just wondering if
they work (action-wise) as good as they look? For instance, I took a Gibbs 1-1/2 oz
Polaris apart the other day and cut in half length wise. It revealed all it's
secrets to me(weight placement, etc. and mine just do not work as good as the original...I can't for the life of me figure it out...I don't want to mass produce just looking to hone my skills...the popper dives more than it "pops" any suggestions?

[Tagger]

I believe the old Gibbs is Sugar pine ... good luck finding that .. Try White Pine .... Just curious ??? Did your finished popper weigh in at 1.5 ounce .?? and did it sit the same dead in the water as the gibbs ..

[fishatin]

I am using pine and go gram for gram every step
of the way and still no luck...Mine come out to
be exactly the same weight and most people cannot tell
the difference...could "the wood" really be a factor from
eastern white pine to this sugar pine?

[Tagger]

Hows it sit dead in the water ??? thats a biggy .. You might have to adjust lead to wood change .. even exact same wood you might have to adjsut ,,, old growth ,, new stuff ..

[fishatin]

Well, these poppers sink until you retrieve so I am not sure about what
you mean...dead in the water? even the commercial made one sinks!

[Tagger]

I mean ... does it mimick the original when your not fishing it .not tugging on the line ... dead .. throw it in right in front of you and watch what it does . Ok does it sink same attitude in the water as original gibbs 1.5 ounce .. same sink rate ..slow sink or like a stone .arse straight down or at an angle . We are almost to the smash it with a hammer point .

[Diggin Jiggin]

Originally Posted by Tagger

I mean ... does it mimick the original when your not fishing it .not tugging on the line ... dead .. throw it in right in front of you and watch what it does . Ok does it sink same attitude in the water as original gibbs 1.5 ounce .. same sink rate ..slow sink or like a stone .arse straight down or at an angle . We are almost to the smash it with a hammer point .

I didn't know there was another step after the Bandsaw... Taggers on another level...

If you have the front cut at the same angle as the original and its diving, is it flipping upside down ?? That would make the cup work like a dive plane. Maybe move some more weight onto the belly and if necessary reduce whats in the tail. You gotta experiment...

[Flaptail]

Heres an example of why it's hard to get the "action" of one plug manufacturers models down pat.

In the photo below are 4 Polaris Poppers by Gibbs. They span the years from Stan, his son John and Jim Griecci, who owend the company before the current owners in Rhode Island. All are meant to represent the large model which commonly weighs in at 3-1/2 oz.

The top plug is one of Stans
The next one down is on of John's.
The next one down is one of Jim Grieccis standard large.
The bottom one was made by Jim G. on spcl. order from a noted distance casting champion.

Note the wood types and how they react hydrodynamically (float or sink) in the water. Note closely the weight differences though (except for the spcl order one) they all carry the exact same lead pencil weight.

Like Numbskull discovered when he reproduced the Habs Needlefish, you can't judge them all by one example. Find the one that you like best and mimic it is basically all I can advise you to do.

[fishatin]

yeah, I guess I need to experiment...Thanks for the input guys...I just keep doing the same thing over and over again being so happy with the shape and placement
of the critical components that I forget after I finish them that
they just don't work and since I have changed nothing, therefore
nothing changes...back to the work bench! Such is the life
of a plug builder...

[Rockfish9]

fishatin, keep your chin up, you have been given the best advise you could possibly get... so very many things go into making a plug that go unoticed..although your weights( total plug wright) may be the same, the density of the wood or even the moisture content could be doing in your experiment, thus changing the distrubution of the weight...sometimes, the action your seeking may be as simple as changing the hook size...I've had plug action change dramaticly by simply going up or down a hook size, I fine tune my needle fish by changing from a 4X hook to a 6X hook... sometime the desired result takes a change that subtle... good luck with your endevor....

[Tagger]

fishatin ... Do you know the story of Hawg Hunter lures ? His name was Brad Poehler and was a physically sick man with failing eye site and very poor tools . He had no duplicator .. Just lay a plug on the bench and try and copy it from looking at it . I studied him last year . His plugs were well sought after on the canal and other places. Lay 20 of them side by side and no 2 will be exactly alike .. I did this .. How can they be any good ? There's no consistancy .. Or is there ? After "dead" floating a bunch of them ,my friends and myself noticed they all had one thing in common .. They all Floated with 2" of the top of the plug showing above the water .. Later I talked to close friends of Brads and learned he tanked and weighted each plug individaully to sit the way he wanted in the water ..I learned alot ,, from a man who's work many consider crude ..He was a pre-internet builder .. Hope this helped .

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by fishatin

I love all the great looking plugs on the site and was just wondering if
they work (action-wise) as good as they look? For instance, I took a Gibbs 1-1/2 oz
Polaris apart the other day and cut in half length wise. It revealed all it's
secrets to me(weight placement, etc. and mine just do not work as good as the original...I can't for the life of me figure it out...I don't want to mass produce just looking to hone my skills...the popper dives more than it "pops" any suggestions?

Please post a picture of the original alongside your copy (both a side view and face view), and weigh both without hooks, and I think we might have a better chance of helping you.