Originally Posted by Ian (Post 1199348)

Your point?
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Originally Posted by Ian (Post 1199348)

Your point?
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Originally Posted by spence (Post 1199351)

The point is that covid is a democratic plot to rig the election.

I’d note though that Sweden has a higher covid mortality rate than the US.
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Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1199354)

No problem? No problem??? How many people died per million ??

I guess deaths related to this are acceptable to conservatives.
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Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1199354)

No problem? No problem??? How many people died per million ??

I guess deaths related to this are acceptable to conservatives.
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1199356)

how you get here for there is amazing...

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1199359)

if the goal is always to eliminate deaths, we’d eliminate the automobile. think how many lives that would save. but we don’t do that. there’s a reason why.

is sweden conservative? is that what you’re suggesting?
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Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1199363)

vs getting a virus at Walmart that could be prevented

Originally Posted by Nebe (Post 1199354)

No problem? No problem??? How many people died per million ??

I guess deaths related to this are acceptable to conservatives.
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Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1199367)

They are a recent poll I posted was over 54% found the deaths from covid as acceptable..

HeLL you can go back to the beginnings of this and find post decrying Obama's deaths for the bird flu. When covid deaths were low. ... as Jim he was was all over that nonsense , no he is changing gears

Pointing out deaths or crime in dem controlled cities is the new mantra. Because crime happens no place else , and definently not were Republicans are in charge


.1 Alaska • Violent crime rate: 885 per 100,000 people 2 . New Mexico

• Violent crime rate: 856.6 per 100,000 people 3 . Tennessee

• Violent crime rate: 623.7 per 100,000 people 4th . Arkansas

• Violent crime rate: 543.6 per 100,000 people and 5th Nevada

• Violent crime rate: 541.1 per 100,000 people

And murder top 5 per 100,000. Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Missouri and Alaska
Damn pesky facts



All this chaos has come under Trump whom the hold responsible for nothing

But it was Obama's fault that police were killed

But they will ingnore the benfits

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1199351)

The point is that covid is a democratic plot to rig the election.

I’d note though that Sweden has a higher covid mortality rate than the US.
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Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1199363)

and there is a difference from getting killed in an auto vs getting a virus at Walmart that could be prevented

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1199380)

Did you note this from the article: "According to Sebastian Rushworth, an American-born doctor in a Stockholm A&E department, he hasn’t seen a single Covid-19 patient in a month: ‘Basically,’ he writes, ‘Covid is in all practical senses over and done with in Sweden.’ "

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1199366)

you can catch a lotta stuff at Walmart....

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1199382)

auto deaths can be eliminated. but we don’t do it. we accept tens of thousands of deaths a year on the roads, as a cost of having a quality of life. true or false?
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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1199383)

And many doctors could say the same in Vermont,

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1199369)

is there a point here?

Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1199388)

We don't know that Vermont's lockdown was necessary. We do know that Sweden didn't lock down and got the "same" result you noted as Vermont.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1199390)

Now playing dumb

Originally Posted by PaulS (Post 1199387)

We do, but there are rules in place to try to limit the deaths - something many states did not do. And if a city tried to limit the deaths by imposing restrictions the Repub. govern. all tried to prevent them bc I guess they don't like local control - hypocrites.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1199402)

you are desperately trying to split hairs. there are rules, but they are very very non invasive. you’re going to compare speed limits, with the spring shutdown? similarly invasive?

Anything at all, to avoid saying “you make a good point.”

speed limits and no school, are equally intrusive according to you.
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Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1199388)

We don't know that Vermont's lockdown was necessary. We do know that Sweden didn't lock down and got the "same" result you noted as Vermont.

And Vermont didn't need some "national plan" other than what the Federal government already did. It's called federalism. Separation of powers. Limited central government. States having far more power to shape their destiny than you seem to care for.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1199412)

As usual you confuse power with leadership.
Just like the weak leader who had to gas people to go make a political statement and demonstrate his power.

I have no idea of what you're talking about. I wasn't referring to either power or leadership.

All is not perfect in Sweden, though I’m surprised that your example of good behavior is a country with national healthcare, a generous safety net to support those who fell ill and guaranteed income. Perhaps that influenced their people to do the voluntary isolation.

Who said it was perfect? Is perfection your measure of success? I don't know what influenced the people. I just posted an article that showed an example of a country handling the virus without a lockdown.

Since you want to slip in other issues than I presented with the article . . . as well as national health care and generous safety net, Sweden is a thriving capitalist country very friendly to business with a corporate tax rate of just over 21% and scheduled to decrease one percent next year.

And its income tax rate is flatter than ours. "Sweden has a large, broad, and flat tax base . . . Sweden takes a bigger slug out of your income and imposes top tax rates at a much lower income than the United States does, and imposes a high value added tax on consumption."

As the Tax Foundation says:

"Scandinavian countries provide a broader scope of public services—such as universal healthcare and higher education—than the United States. However, such programs necessitate higher levels of taxation, which is reflected in Scandinavia’s relatively high tax-to-GDP ratios. Adopting such public services in the United States would naturally require higher levels of taxation. If the U.S. were to raise taxes in a way that mirrors Scandinavian countries, taxes—especially on the middle class—would increase through a new VAT and higher social security contributions and personal income taxes. Business and capital taxes would not necessarily need to be increased if policymakers were following the Scandinavian model. In fact, the corporate income tax rate would decline."

"It is important to note that the Swedish tax system is much more regressive than America’s. To impose policies that “closely resemble” those of Sweden, [we] would have to significantly increase taxes on the middle class, not by purely on raising taxes on the very rich. In essence, under the Swedish system, citizens prepay for health and social services. This is very different from the “free” model of health and social services that AOC and her colleagues’ rhetoric implies."

Swedish’s top epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, said in an interview with Swedish Radio that the country made some mistakes. “If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” he said.

Somewhere in the middle would be far less draconian that the lockdowns most countries have imposed.

In any case, the most instructive phase of Sweden’s approach may lie ahead: “It will be interesting to find out whether they can respond now, or whether they’re going to keep going with a strategy that seems like it’s not working,” says Schneider.

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 1199424)

Look at the # of people who have gotten Covid in Sweden. Then look at the # in California.
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Originally Posted by detbuch (Post 1199418)

I don't know who Schneider is, but the author of the article I posted believes the Swedish strategy is working very well.