paying attention to debates but ignoring Trump
 

Classic


Trump and Putin Share Joke About Election Meddling, Sparking New Furor

United States and Japan and a pillar of American foreign policy. On Wednesday, asked about the treaty on Fox News, Mr. Trump sneered, “If Japan is attacked, we will fight World War III.” Then he added: “But if we’re attacked, Japan doesn’t have to help us at all. They can watch it on a Sony television.” (I guess he doesn't understand the concept of scale or treaties )

or “U.S. companies can sell their equipment to Huawei,” Trump said at a news conference. “We’re talking about equipment where there’s no great national security problem with it.”

The Trump administration has previously said Huawei is a national security issue, not a trade problem.

which is it???


And to suggest there isn't a better choice for POTUS is basic :faga:

That was really bad. I don't like it and it concerns me a lot.

I wonder if he'll have more flexibility after the election.

You guys on the right love comparing things that are no where close to being the same.. it must help with rationalization Trumps our bet option. It bothers you but but Obama
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There's always, in someone's opinion, a better choice. Trick is in finding him/her/it. And making sure that it meets all the specs required by wdmso.

very very bad.
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Hey he welcomed the help once, he is just letting one of his strong man loves know, he wouldn’t object if they went for it again.
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It sparked furor!

When he, openly, on national TV, before the world "welcomed help once," as you put it, and it was obvious to all of us who don't have TDS that he was being sarcastic, joking, not really asking for help, you guys with TDS adamantly insisted that he was really and actually "asking for Russia's help"--that he was conspiring with Russia.

But now, when he tells Putin not to meddle in the election, it is obvious to those with TDS that Trump is joking, not really telling Putin to not meddle, but somehow actually telling him to meddle.

You TDS guys have it really bad.

Blinders firmly in place as expected, history tends to repeat, especially when help comes from the top.
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What's a joke it that's your rationalization .. that its was just a joke .. and you know this how?? Is this the line on fox or you tube ..this doesn't phase you but the communists are helping the Democrats post .. does ????
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When can't respond rationally, Confucius say: make fortune cookie gibberish.

What am I supposed to be phased about? Some ill-mannered so called "journalist" tries to embarrass Trump in the middle of his conversation with Putin by yelling out if he was going to tell Putin not to meddle in our election, and so Trump sarcastically does so? I am supposed to take this as some meaningful evidence that Trump is conspiring, that he has a bromance with Putin, that he is going to betray America? Really???

And the Communists actually being in cahoots with the Democrats, NO JOKING, really and truly and openly and sincerely, and the Dems not disavowing them, doesn't phase you? And you can go on and on about Trump colluding with Russia when there is no real evidence that he is or was? And you can't say nary a peep about the undisputed aid the Commies give the Dems?

I'm not on the right. I was and remain center left / center right on most things. I am an independent for 2 decades. I can go the last 20 years and call major issues both parties and few pluses both parties.

You can't get out of one party.

gotta love Trumps latest historical propaganda moment with Kim :kewl:

Sure it was last minute:kewl: .. imagine if the last POTUS pulled such a stunt conservatives would be like :lossinit:

you need to keep your conspiracies straight your all over the map :kewl::kewl:

Maybe the journalist asked the question we all think (well not some of course) needs to be asked repeatedly until he actually does it and not like it’s some fing joke.
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Donald Trump joked with Vladimir Putin about getting rid of journalists



the US president lightheartedly sought common ground with Putin at the expense of the journalists around them in Osaka.
“Get rid of them. Fake news is a great term, isn’t it? You don’t have this problem in Russia but we do,” Trump said.

Twenty-six journalists have been murdered in Russia since Putin first became president

but ya its only a joke so its 100% ok for Trump supporters :faga:

This won’t get a second look
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As is quite often the case, you make no sense. What conspiracies? What map? Are you dog whistling?

Whatever nonsense your peddling here, you haven't responded to what I said . . . of course, that's not unusual for you.

Maybe the "journalist" could choose a better time and place to belligerently shout out the question that is used as a talking point, dog whistle, mantra, to make Trump look bad.

What is Trump supposed to do, threaten Putin if he meddles in our elections? Would that have any effect? Are we going to stop meddling in other countries affairs? This sort of meddling has been going on forever and will continue forever. Trying to negotiate cooperation on various international problems with someone will not go well if it is done belligerently.

Trump's Secretary of State, has warned Russia not to meddle in our 2020 elections. Trump has not repudiated that warning. Message sent. He doesn't have to confront Putin personally about it while trying to establish a ground on which the two can manage to cooperate on other Matters.

The "journalist" was putting on a show. A show that you applaud. A stupid show.

And that sir is why meddling shouldn’t happen, thank you for helping clarify, tip of the hat!
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"Shouldn't"? How do you go about eliminating meddling? You want to go to war? Slap on the wrist? Huff and puff about how mad it makes you and if you don't stop we'll do something really bad to you?

When Pompeo warned the Russians that meddling would damage our attempts at improving relations, was that too soft? Should he have included a physical threat of some kind?

Should Trump, every time he speaks to Putin, tell him to stop meddling or he'll do something really bad to Russia, even worse than what he has done such as pumping more oil to hurt Russia's main source of foreign income, creating or strengthening military alliances with Eastern European countries on Russia's border, supplying weapons to Ukraine, maintaining the Ukraine related sanctions until Crimea is returned to Ukraine, expelling Russian diplomats, sanctioning Russians who were indicted by Mueller, putting tariffs on goods from Russia's main military ally China, putting economic sanctions on Iran, one of Russia's strongest allies in the Middle East thus severely crippling its economy?

If none of that has gotten Russia's attention that we are not pleased with its actions including meddling, what exactly will? Should he do more of the same, or worse? And how will that worse affect our ability to get any kind of beneficial deal re arms, denuclearization, cooperation against terrorism, a better relation with the West in general, including economic and political?

Trump may be naïve in thinking he can "make a deal" with countries like Russia, or China, or North Korea. On the other hand, if he does walk softly but carries a really big stick, and can put enough of an economic squeeze on those big, bad, meddlers, maybe they will come to the table with an agreement in the right direction.

And maybe if the U.S. stops meddling in the affairs of other countries, we would actually have the high moral meddling ground.

And if We Americans stopped meddling in the affairs of fellow Americans in order to defeat them, such as creating fake dossiers provided by foreign entities in order to defeat an opposing presidential candidate, maybe we can talk about how meddling shouldn't happen.

Fat chance.

Just what would you consider appropriate press behavior with the current administration having less press conferences than any other.
This administration started its first press conference with a lie and has been consistently lying in press conferences and all media for its term to date.
Since when is it none of the presses business what Trump says to Putin?
Perhaps another of Trump’s sarcastic jokes was how Putin doesn’t have problems with fake news, just how many Russian reporters have died since the start of Putin’s regime?
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How many American reporters have died since the start of Trump's regime? See, you're concocting a slick kind of lie that Trump is going to get American reporters killed. Well, if the tons of negative abuse heaped on Trump hasn't gotten him killed, I guess the reporters who dump it shouldn't worry.

Funny Trumps harder on a country with no nukes but plays buddy's with the one with them? And has more fake news and no real journalist ... but call Trump out on his comments and actions your accused of having TDS.. that's the new defense
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It was read. independent yes center left /center right? clearly not in right field like some but clearly not in center field either
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So he claims it but you dismiss the claim. He must be a Trumplican plant who is lying again because unless he is in lockstep with the radicals then surely he is the enemy.
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Haha, from where you sit, just about everyone is in right field.

The term “left field” suits him to a T.
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Welcome to the other side in the world of labels. Your friends in the anti-Trump media regularly cast racist, Nazi, homophobe, sexist, and various other judgmental labels on Trump. So do you. Goose/gander.

Are you claiming that Trump has not lied or that all politicians lie. One of those statements is true, but no politician has lied to the extent Trump has.
Start with his early life and look at his great high school grades, his excellent performance at Wharton, his excellent tax returns. You can't because he hid them, he is not what he claims to be. It is the common thread in all of Trump's history. How did he get on the Forbes list? Who is John Barron? John Miller? David Dennison? Who's the liar?

The point of Trump liking Putin not having fake news is not that american reporters have been killed, it's that Trump finds Putin's approach acceptable and worth joking about.
You spin it into something else and find this acceptable. How dare they question the king, it's treasonous. The founders closely defined treason so that it was not the same as England, where if you spoke out against the king it was treason.
He was not elected King, he is the President of all the american people and took an oath to uphold the Constitution. He needs to start acting like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T1EUtcAX98

Clearly the greatest president of our lifetime.
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I’m an Ike man, but that's before
my lifetime. If you measure “greatness” as the ability to inspire true, genuine madness in your political adversaries, no one comes close.

Paul Krugman said the economy would not survive a trump presidency. the dow will likely break records today. and msnbc still pays paul krugman to come
and tell us what he thinks.


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Fixed it for you, and it ain't over yet...... Give him time to perform true to form, he has a history. But we are not allowed to see it.

yes you did, that was very amusing, please stop my stomach hurts from laughing so hard.

he does have a history. so you’re suggesting that this market run up is some kind of shell game, a con? all those people aren’t really back to work? do you have ANY evidence whatsoever, to support that?

we’re due for a correction, sure, that’s coming. that doesn’t mean this isn’t real.
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Maybe a few numbers would help you understand the magnitude of the Trump lies, but of course it was easy for Obama.
Dated May 13th 2019 by Eric Black in the MinnPost

Under which president did the stock market rise more during the first 27 months of his presidency? Donald J. Trump or Barack H. Obama? Under which did the unemployment rate decline more? How about GDP growth per president?

If it wasn’t for obnoxious braggadocio of the current incumbent — his incessant pitiful compulsion to exaggerate his own accomplishments and disparage those of all others (but most especially those of his immediate predecessor) — I would say the idea that economic indices reflect the wisdom and skill of the incumbent president is dumb. But if those are measures the self-glorifying Trump wants to use, let’s go there and review some actual, you know, facts.

On January 20, 2017, the day Trump took office, the Dow Jones industrial average was at 19,827. It’s had a good run during his first two plus years, and it closed Friday at 25,942. That’s an impressive gain of 30.8 percent, but let’s not be stingy. Let’s call it 31 percent. (Note: as of publication of this story Monday morning, the Dow was down more than 600 points, or 2.4 percent.)

Some find Trump’s policies despicable, racist, even (or perhaps especially) planet-threatening. But some argue that the good economy during Trump’s first two-plus years is a powerful offset against those factors. The movement of the Dow is not the best measure of economic performance, nor certainly of the overall cost/benefit analysis of his presidency. GDP growth would be better and, in terms of impact on ordinary Americans, unemployment would be better. And those have done well under Trump, too. But the Dow is very specific and often celebrated by Trump praisers.


But here’s the thing. During the same period of Barack Obama’s first term, from Inauguration Day 2009, until the close on May 12, 2011, the closest equivalent date during his presidency, the Dow rose from 8,280 to 12,696, a growth of 65 percent.
The stock market is not the best measure of economic performance, of course, and I’m not going to go through all the economic measures. And it would be hard to statistically measure the staggering (but non-monetary) decline in U.S. leadership in the world under Trump. How would one quantify the impact of the withdrawal from the Paris Agreement to combat global warming? Or from the U.S.-brokered deal to head off an Iranian nuclear weapon, which has now caused Iran to announce it will no longer abide by some of the terms of the deal, which makes Mideast war and even life-on-Earth-ending nuclear war a bit more likely?

Those things can’t be measured statistically. Maybe they’ll make America great again, although I have my doubts.

But back to things that can be measured. As statistics go, a rising stock market primarily benefits a relatively small, wealthy investor class (although certainly some benefits trickle down to the economy in general). So let’s do another one more that more directly affects average Americans, especially those who really need to work for a living, namely the unemployment rate.

The administration, among others, has spent recent days celebrating the decline of the unemployment to 3.6 percent, its lowest level since 1969. Congratulations to all those who wanted work and found it thanks to the drop in that rate, and one-hand-clapping to Donald Trump who, of course, claims this as a great personal accomplishment, which further demonstrates his success especially compared to his despised predecessor.

Given all that, let’s take a look at comparison unemployment data across the Obama and Trump years in this chart, which assigns an overall unemployment rate to each calendar year. Obama inherited a plummeting economy and the worst recession in decades from his predecessor, George W. Bush.

In 2009, the first year of Obama’s presidency, unemployment hit 9.9 percent, its highest level since the Great Depression. But starting in 2010, the unemployment rate fell for eight straight years, namely the eight years when the economy was essentially under Obama policy. By 2016, Obama’s last year in office, unemployment measured 4.7 percent (down from 9.9 percent.) In 2017, the first year of Trump’s term (but before many of his policies were implemented) it fell to 4.1 percent.

In 2018, with the Trump tax cuts and other magical elements of Trumpism on the books, it fell again to 3.9 percent. So, depending on how you count those swing years, unemployment fell by a 5.8 percentage points under Obama policy over eight years and 0.2 percentage points under Trump’s policies through the end of 2018.

Just a quick look at GDP growth, for which I’ll rely on this table from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, and this graph from Statista. Between 2009 and 2017, the eight years during which Obama’s policies should be blamed or credited, GDP per capita went up every year, with a total gain of $5,903. I would call that decent, maybe not great. Solid, steady but not astonishing growth of a little above or a little below two percent year with a best year of 2.9 percent in 2015 and an average of about 2.5 percent a year. (It’s “real” GDP so inflation is taken out.)


For 2018, the first full year under Trump’s policies, Statista says GDP per capita grew 2.9 percent, equal to Obama’s best year, 2015. Although it’s a per capita number, it says nothing about the distribution of the gains, and one has one’s suspicions on that score. But, for today, we’ll leave it at this: The first year under Trump showed good overall growth. (If you look at the whole Statista table, you’ll see that the golden age of recent GDP growth was under Bill Clinton.)
Among the various aspects of Trump’s moral midgetry is intellectual dishonesty. Also immodesty. But intellectual dishonesty is a quality I particularly disdain. Sure, make your argument, but don’t deny the contrary evidence. To me, that borders on lying.

For example, I would acknowledge that Obama inherited an economy and a stock market and a labor market that had crashed under his predecessor, while Trump inherited one that had thrived under his predecessor, the much-belittled-by-Trump Obama.

That might undermine the power of Obama absolutely besting, crushing, owning Trump as measured by two out of three important benchmark economic numbers during Obama’s presidency compared to Trump’s presidency so far.

I’ll consider the offsetting factor above if and when Trump acknowledges that he inherited a nation that was thriving, at relative peace (and the leader of several of the world’s most admirable and necessary multilateral agreements), and not one that was a hell-scape of carnage, dysfunction incompetence and decline he portrayed during his campaign and inaugural address.

But being intellectually honest in fairness to Donald Trump seems like unilateral disarmament. Let him try it for a while, then we’ll see. But don’t hold your breath.

PeteF. Has never posted an original or even honest thought in this forum,why would he acknowledge such?
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Have you?

Serious question
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Pete, I give obama credit all
the time
for helping the economy, so if you think that was a gotcha moment, think again.

with manufacturing and gdp growth, trump has done, what obama specifically said, could
not be done.

i give obama high marks for
handling the economy. i’m consistent and fair. are you as fair? can you give trump high marks for handling the economy?
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it’s also pure marxist bullsh*t to say the stock market improvement primarily helps
a small portion of the country. Many of us now have exposure to the stock market through IRAs and 401ks. that was written by someone with an occupy wall street agenda.






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