Would it be rape if she simply blew him?
Fondling is not attempted rape
Grabbing ass is not attempted rape
Gather yourself and come up for air
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I'm pretty confident it you had 100 people that were unaware of the history, partisan nature of the time prior and they watched her performance and were asked afterward if they thought she was a doctor or a patient...100 would say patient....now you can say something similar about Kavanaugh in the afternoon but the obvious difference was that he'd been under and was continuing to under go vicious assault by some of the most loathsome people on the planet while she was getting a baby oil rub down :kewl:

you understand the "r" word is now banned...that's three strikes :hihi:

I see that now that Lindsay Graham decided to act like a conservative for once, the left hates him again and is making fun of him for being gay. I've seen this a few times in the last few days, including on Saturday Night Live, and by Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, and Bill Maher.

So does the left consider it an insult to be gay now? When did gay become a liberal weapon to use against enemies?

It's kind of hard to keep track of what's acceptable and what's not, when the goal posts might as well be on a carnival Tilt-A-Wheel ride, they're moving around so fast.

everything is a political weapon for the left and their media accomplices...they are political terrorists, they like having everyone live in fear of their attacks and retribution

Who's chasing the laser pointer now?


:easy:

i know, it’s just funny, the left pats themselves on the back for advocating for gay rights, but now it’s acceptable to make fun of people you suspect to be gay? or is it only acceptable to weaponize homosexuality against conservatives?
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If you had a daughter reporting a boy forced himself on top of me and tried to take off my clothes and was grinding into me and touching me all over, then put his hand across my mouth when I attempted to call out for help, I'm pretty sure you'd not dismiss it as just a little boy horse play and ass grabbing. And what if she hand not been able to get away, what if he was just a bit less shattered and had more control, the story might have had a far different ending.

in most states you could call that assault and unlawful restraint. But you need some evidence, at least some. An accusation isn’t evidence. remember the duke lacrosse players?
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What was the evidence with Franken?

A simple question
What choices, if any, have you made in your life so that you would not be sexually assaulted?
Now ask your wife, sister, mother or daughter that question.

well there was a photo of him groping, or at the very least pretending to fondle, a sleeping soldier, like a pervert.
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women have it rough, no question.

Nonetheless, an accusation isn’t evidence.

ask your sons what they are doing to prevent being falsely accused of something which is almost impossible to disprove. there are two sides to this, two people involved. Both deserve consideration, not just the one which serves your agenda.

have you noticed that in the statues of lady justice, she’s always blindfolded? Do you know the purpose of the blindfold? Gender doesnt imply credibility.
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Conflating Sexual Assault with False Accusations is a great methodology for reducing the importance of women being assaulted.
I'll play that game.
How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault?

He is a comedian and we all know he never touched her (and that is why you added the last part).

So the Dems. made a man quit even though you just admitted he never touched her and yet the Repubs. elected someone who has multiple sex accusations against him (and let's not forget Roy Moore where 550,000 people voted for a pervert/pedophile) and you think the Dems are the party that is morally bankrupt. :eek5:

Ford was wrong thinking that she could keep this from getting out, DC could use an army of plumbers to plug all the leaks on both sides of the aisle. Feinstein on receipt of the letter should have reached out to Ford and insisted for her cooperation if she was that concerned about his confirmation. Clearly this should have come out on receipt or at least concerns should have been raised, even if you couldn't put a name to the accusations.

The where is the evidence argument is crap, someone please tell me what kind of evidence exists in a sexual assault case, not like they had smart phones back then and were putting it out on YouTube. I'm sure the thousands of women and boys out there who come forward later in life would be so happy at the outpouring of support and empathy. I would also suggest that a victim of this type of assault isn't ever going to forget who did it, I'm not buying into her mistaking him for someone else.

I was a skinny kid growing up in high school and I can remember every single person by first and last name who bullied me and caused me severe emotional distress. Do I remember the exact day, date or event those traumas happened, no I don't; but I remember vividly who the F-heads were. Point is when anyone experiences severe trauma at the hands of another, you don't EVER forget their faces or their names.

I have empathy for her, for him (if proven innocent of the charges) and the families of both. Public office is not for the weak of heart, but this isn't some low level cabinet post and these are serious charges and speak to his character. I'm not as forgiving as some might be of what might have happened when the man was 17, because at 17 you should be responsible for your behavior; almost everyone on this board would be held accountable at that age.

BC she appears to have info. that K may have (again) lied in his sworn testimony about when he 1st heard about Ramirez's claims. She may have texts showing K contacted her before the release of the New Yorker Mag. article.

Therein lies the problem, he should need to be proven guilty, not proven innocent. But that's not how things work these days.

That's not fair, you know he doesn't like Trump and besides he has ..................

What can you do? Its false so its a lie, there is nothing anybody can do to stop somebody from lying.

photograph for starters

of what?

no we don't....I don't think many women found it humorous

noone said the republicans are pure...but the democrats are consistently taking gold, silver and bronze in every event for the morally bankrupt

This is a Senate hearing, not a court of law.
He will not be sentenced to anything here, only rewarded if he is confirmed.
Brent Kavanaugh is a lawyer and a very experienced washington politician, he knows exactly what game he is playing and what the stakes are, he played this game himself for years.
One could say that this is retribution for Merrick Garland, but there were a hundred other federal judicial positions left unfilled by the republican congress during Obama's last two years. It is a political game for control of the third branch of the federal government, make no mistake about it. It has very little to do with voters and their choices, far more to do with money and power.
Neither side is without guilt here, Flake said if he was running he could not have delayed the vote. There would have been political consequences that he could not have withstood. Is that acceptable?
I think without term and contribution limits this will never end.

"Conflating Sexual Assault with False Accusations is a great methodology for reducing the importance of women being assaulted.
"

Only a thoughtless person says that mentioning one, is necessarily conflating it with the other. I said both parties are deserving of consideration.


"How many things have you done in your life so that you were not falsely accused of Sexual Assault"

Not much you can do.

"He is a comedian "

Ha ha ha, a 60 year-old man pretending to grope a sleeping soldier, oh please stop my stomach hurts from laughing so hard.

Has Franken denied that he did anything wrong? I thought he apologized. If he confessed, well that's pretty good evidence he acted stupidly.

Here's the photo. If this is genuine and not doctored, it looks like he's touching her in a way I wouldn't let him touch my wife. Is this not the photo?

"you think the Dems are the party that is morally bankrupt"

I think politicians in general, on both sides, are corrupt. If you want to talk about degree, the democrats are worse, every day and twice on Sunday.

DC and all other "clubs" are ruled by a dominant or "partisan" faction. Flake has attempted to appear as one not afraid of party retribution by resisting and opposing his own party rulers. He is rumored to be trying to actually head the club and run for President. Beware . . . that Flake is a lean and hungry man.

I'm not OK with any of it. A bunch of liars trying to prove another man a liar is not an attractive scenario to me. Pretending that it is purely about the truth, not about influencing the outcome of the midterms and preventing the possibility of appointing more constitutionalists to the Court is disgusting to me.

I am not going to be tempted to surrender my ultimate goal to a spurious moral argument. Especially not by those whose morality shifts from situation to situation. By those who dismiss their pretended morality when it comes in the way of gaining or maintaining power. Quite frankly, they can shove their phony morality up the dark hole in their lying azz. They've shown that they don't care about either Ford or Kavanaugh. They just care about power, and if it destroys someone in their way, too effin bad.

Those who do not recognize or admit to the depravities that lurk in their own humanity, are not competent to judge others. Those who fervently proclaim that they would not lie to save themselves from destruction are either saints or liars. According to those who wanted the Clinton's to remain in power, Hillary was justified in her lies about her husbands infidelity so that they COULD remain in power.

Unless we are saints, we are all in need of some redemption. Even several saints led dissolute lives before they were canonized. Personally, I would find it nearly impossible to forgive someone who willingly, premeditatively, for selfish reasons, murdered an innocent person. That's up to God, and some politicians.

I do not want to hear from politicians about morality. I even squirm when someone like Pence bathes himself in a halo of moral integrity. I want only one thing from them, and as well from Justices of the Supreme Court. Fidelity to the original text of the Constitution. I certainly don't care what they were like as teenagers, so long as they have abandoned their unacceptable ways and do their constitutional duty.

I'm not going to be cornered or stuffed into a moral box that leads to the destruction of my ultimate goal. I believe that the Founder's Constitution is the most politically moral structure of government ever devised. They did understand the moral depravity that lies somewhere in the depths of human nature. They did understand the extremes of power to which humanity is prone. That is why they constructed a most moderate system of government with its checks and balances and its limitations on government. It is the most equitable dividing line between lawlessness and tyranny.

I refuse to agree to snake in the garden whispers (lies) that say times are better, that people are better, that we can come over to the side that promises the best life if we surrender those supposedly outdated inalienable rights we think we have, to a superior, limitless government that can give us the most usable "rights," that it thinks we require.

You keep trying to persuade me to agree to a selective moral argument which, in my opinion, will further lead to the erosion of freedom. (I would certainly agree to expand my reasoning if you can stand to have that discussion). If you want to try to suck me into agreeing to your version of morality, you can give that a rest now.

So What....

That photo was debunked as you can clearly see the shadow.

So now we are making people resign bc of jokes that are not funny?

"The where is the evidence argument is crap"

The hell it is.

"what kind of evidence exists in a sexual assault case"

In cases of assault, there can be all manner of physical evidence. In cases of harassment, usually not so much. It's a tough problem, the common lack of evidence. I don't think the solution is to abandon the presumption of evidence.

Al Sharpton falsely accused white cops of rape. The Duke lacrosse players were falsely accused of rape. Rolling Stone falsely accused a UVA student of rape.

This doesn't mean that all accusers of lying, nor does it mean that the guilty don't deserve severe punishment. But it does mean, that especially in this political climate where nothing matters except winning (especially on the left), that you need more than an accusation.

"I'm not buying into her mistaking him for someone else. "

You don't have to buy it. You just have to admit that there's no proof. She lied about her fear of flying. All 4 witnesses she put there, including a woman who has been a lifelong friend, refuse to corroborate her story. That's evidence. Evidence that she's mistaken, or perhaps lying, I can't know.

" can remember every single person by first and last name who bullied me and caused me severe emotional distress."

So can I. I can also point to cases, as I have done, where people were falsely accused, often for liberal political gain. The fact that you and I can remember the names of our tormentors, means absolutely nothing in this case. You aren't her, neither am I.

Accusations are not evidence. They are accusations.

I didn't say he should resign because he's not funny. I just said he's not funny.

This photo was shown to be a fake?

If all there were, were accusations, especially if they were from conservative women, then he should not have had to resign. Fair enough? Any hypocrisy there on my part? Any at all?

Brent Kavanaugh is a lawyer and a very experienced washington politician, he knows exactly what game he is playing and what the stakes are, he played this game himself for years.
Through that network, Kavanaugh was mentored by D.C. Appeals Court Judge Laurence Silberman, known among his colleagues for planting leaks in the press for partisan advantage.
When, as I came to know, Kavanaugh took on the role of designated leaker to the press of sensitive information from Starr's operation, we all laughed that Larry had taught him well. (Of course, that sort of political opportunism by a prosecutor is at best unethical, if not illegal.)
But the cabal's godfather was Ted Olson, the then-future solicitor general for George W. Bush and now a sainted figure of the GOP establishment (and of some liberals for his role in legalizing same-sex marriage). Olson had a largely hidden role as a consigliere to the "Arkansas Project" — a multi-million dollar dirt-digging operation on the Clintons, funded by the eccentric right-wing billionaire Richard Mellon Scaife and run through The American Spectator magazine, where I worked at the time.
Both Ted and Brett had what one could only be called an unhealthy obsession with the Clintons — especially Hillary. While Ted was pushing through the Arkansas Project conspiracy theories claiming that Clinton White House lawyer and Hillary friend Vincent Foster was murdered (he committed suicide), Brett was costing taxpayers millions by peddling the same garbage at Starr's office.
A detailed analysis of Kavanaugh's own notes from the Starr Investigation reveals he was cherry-picking random bits of information from the Starr investigation — as well as the multiple previous investigations — attempting vainly to legitimize wild right-wing conspiracies. For years he chased down each one of them without regard to the emotional cost to Foster’s family and friends, or even common decency.
Kavanaugh was not a dispassionate finder of fact but rather an engineer of a political smear campaign. And after decades of that, he expects people to believe he's changed his stripes.

So we disagree on that statement. I see some/(many but not all) Republicans and having bc morally bankrupt. Falling in lockstep w/Trump - environment, fiscal policies, etc. Allow his lies and scummy deeds to go unchecked (more news today about that Trump and Eric talked about Stormy D. even thought he repeatedly said he didn't). They have risen to a level of anger and pettiness previously not seen. You can see it here.

So the Repubs are corrupt but the Dems are some degree more corrupt yet that "degree" causes you to hate the Dems. the way you do - wow.

"So the Repubs are corrupt "

Some, sadly yes. There are tens of millions of, any group that size has bad apples.

"the Dems are some degree more corrupt"

A lot more.

"that "degree" causes you to hate the Dems"

I dislike their policies, and especially dislike their methods. I see Republicans trying to talk about issues, and the democrat response is, way too often, an accusation of hate. I hate the identity politics. I keep hearing liberals talking about the Kavanaugh case in terms of race. Everyone involved is white, why is it a racial issue?

Truth has nothing to do with it.
"You've got to deny, deny, deny and push back on these women, If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you're dead."

Truth has everything to do with it for me, and unfortunately, in this case we likely won't ever know the truth. And in this country, according to our vision of justice, when we can't establish what happened, we treat the accused as if he's innocent. That's our system, and sometimes it's tough to swallow, but we don't apply it selectively. Again, that's exactly why Lady Justice has the blindfold.

And if the democrats want to establish that an accusation is enough to establish guilt, what do they suspect will happen when they are in the majority, and they want to fill SCOTUS seats? Are they this short-sighted?

I think without term and contribution limits this will never end.

I Didn't think people where talking about it in terms of race.