I have to go shovel the driveway now:fury: i will be back in a bit.Built a paint shaker last night i know Salty will get a good laugh out of it but the thing works like you won't believe.:uhuh:

Don't you have a wife?

Good morning everyone... I'm jealous of what you guys already have going. I haven't gotten to work any plug stuff yet, its hard for me to get to it before the holidays but I have a few hours to play this afternoon. I've been meaning to experiment a bit with the musso swimmer shapes but I don't have anything to work from. Can someone post some basic length width dimensions ?

Thanks George. What do you think of the weighting?

Good morning!
I have the same problem, altho here I sit. But I guess we all need a little rest time. After Christmas, money and time will loosen up a bit.
I will spin some ornaments from the grape vine today. I think that the spiral grain will look nice.

Much about these has been posted previously. Here are some details on the 6" Musso pine I measured (but no longer have). If you are interested in the big swimmers pm me, or better yet come by Falmouth this week and I can show you what I know.

Here are the details on the pine jr I sent ******. The size of weight is in there.

The junior musso I measured was a pine.
it is 6 1/8" long
.85" at the nose
.5" at the tail
widest spot was 3" from the nose and measured 1.3" wide
the weight was also 3" from the nose and is 3/8" diameter and 3/4" height....drilled through
first hook is 1.25" from nose, second hook 4"
diameter 2" from either end is 1.2" (it is 1.11" at the first hook)
The lip slot is above center on the plug I saw. about .34" from the top of the plug to the slot.
The plug weighed 2.5oz, but I don't recall if this was rigged or not

I suspect the lower lip slot position that appears to be used on some plugs I've seen on line (I've never actually inspected one) was a later change and used primarily in surface swimmers (which I have not built in the Jr size).

The pine uses a high slot lefty 2 lip
The ss presumably uses the mid slot lip
I've not xrayed a maple jr....the maple sr carries a much smaller weight than the pine or ss. I think he just weighted them to float level and low.

Nice chatting guys. Gotta go an clean the snow. Have a great week and holiday. TTYS

Sorry Bill, missed this. You are correct, the weight is just shoved in along the wire.

Thanks George thats plenty to get me started. I'm not sure what I will do with the shape. I will have to try some normal ones that go by the specs, but I'm tossing around the idea of doing some lipless stuff like the nike uses. When I was picking up wood around thanksgiving I got some maple for darters and they did not have any 5/4 so I ended up with 6/4 and it started me thinking maybe I could try and make some heavy swimmers that go down a bit. I had a lot of luck with the darters last year but I don't make any swimmers that go deep. I think a lot of guys built conrads for this purpose last year, but I really like the shape of the musso.

thanks for the photo. Neat idea.

Hey George by the way that 6" Musso swimmer that I was lent may be a surface swimmer and not a Pine, as someone pointed out to me that the line tie is very low on the face. I has a P above the lip but it doesn't look like the line tie is in the right place for a Pine. Do you think the weighting is the same as the pine? It weighs 2.1 oz's without hooks.

That weight being shoved in "BELOW" the thru wire I have to guess is because the weight they used did not have a hole to pass the wire through? I would not jam the weight in below the wire as I do not think it will do anything performance wise to simply use a traditional wire through the weight approach! My .02 cents!

I may have to agree with Lawrence on this one if it is used on a thin plug like a needle but if that technique was used on a larger dia. plug like a swimmer or larger I think it may have some merit. My 3 cents.

Just speculating here because all this hurts my head. Wouldn't a weight lower than the center of the plug tend to lessen or eliminate roll? Like a sailboat's keel?

that would be my thought Fred.

Yes, I suspect the SS jr is weighted the same as the Pine Jr (I think .4 oz is about what 3 3/0 trebles weigh and the pine I had weighed 2.5oz). The SS sr and Pine sr are weighted the same. Get it to me and I'll xray it to be sure. Is the lip slot .34 down from the head?

I don't think Bob Pond had any subtle plan when he shoved that weight in there. Probably just pencil lead he could get easily.

Paul, which darter did you build. The Musso or the Gibbs? If the Gibbs did you go old school or new school with the hook/weight placement?

Speaking of darters, since I like to talk to myself, did anybody see the bit on Melnyk's blog about thinking a blurple plastic musso loaded to float neutral was his favorite plug? Maybe I'll need to fool with those oversealed over heavy bodies I still have.

numbskull i think those overweight darters swim just fine :)

haven't caught on it yet, but I like the action

I feel like I'm sitting in back of Grad school class..
Pretty cool

I have the Musso's all turned exactly like the beauty you lent me. I am on to the angles this week. I made most out of birch and 2 out of AYC and a pine one to use as my set up piece. Going to do a few thru drilled all the way thru and a few drilled from the rear to the front hook hole and then drill the front thru hole by hand after the angles are done to see which is the easiest. I still intend to do some of the Gibbs small size and the thinner Gibbs size too but may not get to them till later this winter. I am going to concentrate on the Musso. I will also let you take a pic of the Musso SS and maybe the peanut conrad. Thank you.

What blog are you refering too G.?

This one, Paul. Surfcasting.com He is an interesting guy.

Thanks for the reminder , George. I haven't been there in a very long time, things are a little different.

thanks G. I just watched him on Monster fish on Nat geo channel catch a big striper while floating around in a wet suit . It just got over.

8am or 8pm? :biglaugh:

still messing with the musso's as well.

Also started some needle's but want to try maple along with the birch ones. Finished these up over the week in the heated room vs. the garage.

Very nice job Frank. Really well done. How long are they?
I did good in the canal on pretty small poppers last year and am making a few more this year. Very similar in shape. I also like a very small amount of crystal flash and hair on the rear treble.

5.75" almost 2oz on the dot.
usually put a single siwash w/hackle on the back but need to sit down and actually tie some up.

still messing with a slow sinking version similar to a superstrike, its just a completely different animal when made out of wood it seems. A lot of work to keep up but sometimes it seems they will only take it on the drop back.

On that weight placement in that Atom 54B plug. I drilled a 11/32" hole in tail , inserted the wrie then pushed a 1/4" solder rod 1 1/4" length into the hole to the hook hole. You have to force it thru then the weight has to remain in the lower half. The trouble I notice is that it ends off to the side somewhat. I'm sure this will effect the balance. I will swim it later and at least see what a tailweight only swimmer swims like. I probably will end up through wiring a longer 1/4" tailweight. The 1/4" rod at that length is 11 grams.

I love when is snows! I hit the lathe hard after shoveling for 4 hours! I have a bunch of 6 1/2" chunky pencils spun up. They worked well last spring and cast a country mile.

First rate!!!! Those are on the to do list for me as well. I actually cut a large plastic superstrike in half to get a pattern (getting more and more like Eddy everyday). I know they are not as good a plug as the 2.5oz version, but I'm hoping I can solve that and come out with something larger and heavier. I noted the hook and weight placement are somewhat different between the two different sized plugs.

Spent yesterday drilling, drilling, and drilling. Managed to fckup a bunch of Musso (BM) wadd clones cutting the eye angles :wall:. The stock I start with is rarely true square (I rip rough lumber to width but don't bother jointing and thickness planing it) and the special brad point drill bits I use don't run true if started in a drive/tail center hole so I drill my plugs after cutting off the ends. Getting eye holes perpendicular to the hook hole (without building a jig for each style plug) is something I still struggle with.

Got darter slopes to fckup today. The firewood pile ought to grow fast. I need one of those rubber mallets that's in Mr K's second picture. The wooden one is starting to leave a mark on my forehead,

Don't be fooled, the rubber mallet hurts. It just doesn't leave a dent!

numbskull, try putting a piece of dowel in the belly hole that you drill, and if you don't already have one, a improvised v-block works great. (2 pieces of 1x with a 3/4"-1" gap between)

the longer the dowel the easier it is to get it horizontal as you have a longer "gauge" to look at when drilling.

[QUOTE=numbskull;733608]First rate!!!! Those are on the to do list for me as well. I actually cut a large plastic superstrike in half to get a pattern (getting more and more like Eddy everyday). I know they are not as good a plug as the 2.5oz version, but I'm hoping I can solve that and come out with something larger and heavier. I noted the hook and weight placement are somewhat different between the two different sized plugs.

If your cutting it in half just for a pattern then let me know. I can vector it and the plug can be kept in one piece. It's very accurate. The most it will be off is a coupe of pixels. I actually might have a large version at home.

The sinking version I was messing with sunk but tail first. I was try to get it to sink more like a needle so I added a chin weight but it was to much. absolute helicopter.

[QUOTE=eskimo;733675]Why do we do this to ourselves??? I tried making a prototype out of mahogany last season and it sunk FBI informant! Will try again this season.

Talk to Paul before you cut those slopes.....there is a better way.....

Nah, I do it on the bandsaw about the same as you, only I use the same pinned cradle I use to mark the layout lines. It is the belt sander where I screw 'em up. That is the step I'd love to eliminate. I hate belt sanders, probably I should get a rotary one I can sight down from above with.

George, are you holding your belt sander on edge?
It's easy to make a cradle for it to turn it into an edge sander.so you can eyeball whar you are sanding easier.
you could also setup a specific jig for sanding the slope so they come out all the same. I'd be glad to help you with that someday if you want.

Mine is an old, old, old Sears thing with 8" by 36" (or something like that) platen and worn bronze bearings. The price was right, free. Been paying for it ever since.