you know there is still some Delta in Florida....

hey, by the way...when you were attacking desantis for being out during the holidays recently.....

you do know he was with his wife who was getting chemo for her breast cancer...right?

and he didn't take two months off to change diapers :laugha:

freedom....

His staff claimed he was working.

A million tests expired while he was with his wife.

He returned and went to an event with his unmasked wife, who just had Chemo?

So who’s lying
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are you suggesting he's lying about his wife having cancer?

or lying about her getting chemo treatments?

or lying about being with his wife for the treatments?

not sure what tests expiring has to do with anything, did you want him to change the expiration date or something?

I know who is insanely bitter:bl:

what you just did to pete, is like what happened to Sonny Corleone at the toll booth.
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I’m suggesting one of his or his staffs statements is a lie

Since people in Floriduh were waiting in lines for tests and the state controlled the distribution of them, yes I’m suggesting the guy in charge bears responsibility
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you have said here many times, that trump was responsible for many covid deaths that happened on his watch.

let me take a wild guess….Biden isn’t similarly responsible
for the larger number of deaths in 2021?
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responsibility for not distributing at the end of December, a batch of tests that expired in September?...

Republican governors are downplaying the rapid explosion of new Covid infections — but they still want Joe Biden’s help stopping it.

Shocking
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Again Jim comparisons are not remotely relative ..

Funny you support a man who lied about Covid to his fellow Americans and wished it away. And support the unvaccinated as it’s about liberty and freedom

But you want to hold someone responsible who encourages Americans to get tested wear a mask get boosted with the goal of protect yourself and others at the same time . And still excuse the unvaccinated who are the ones actually dying and filling up American hospitals

Your ability to rationalize stuff with nonsense is unmatched


attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate.

That’s you
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a complete dodge.

“false equivalency” is your go-to response to everything, to avoid holding democrats responsible for
anything.
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biden didn’t lie? he said he had a plan to beat covid.

:nailem:

Again facts and Truths are a dodge in Jim’s universe aka Maga universe


Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated

Dodge that Jim ! Can’t fix a problem if those dying don’t wish to participate in the plan..

But but Biden all you got. What a surprise
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i agree you can’t blame
biden for people
not getting vaccinated.

but the vaccine didn’t even exist for
most of grumps
time dealing with covid, so why were all those deaths his fault?

you didn’t criticize cuomo for putting sick people in nursing homes. it’s all trumps fault.

wdmso, you posted recently that a record low number of americans identify as republican. yet biden’s approval numbers stink.

does that mean that a meaningful
number of independents and democrats disapprove? if so, how do you explain that?

Is there a single major policy issue, on which you think Biden has done a lousy job? or do you give him A’s across the board?
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it’s true you can’t blame biden for people not getting vaccinated.

but on what measure can you give him good grades for handling covid?

obviously we weren’t anywhere near prepared for omicron, even though the normal course with viruses is new variants which are more contagious, but thankfully less deadly, then the one before.

you used to be able to go to a clinic and get tested the same day yiu wanted to, now you have to wait days.

production of hime tests is way behind where it could be.

production of treatments like monoclonal antibodies is way behind where it should be. those are very effective, and unfortunately in short supply.

you’d have to give biden good grades on availability of vaccines. and that’s significant. but with the benefit of hindsight, it looks like we went all in on vaccines and let other things slip.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post
Again facts and Truths are a dodge in Jim’s universe aka Maga universe


Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated but are they democrats or republicans...we need that data:tooth:


that sounds like a statistic AOC would blurt out to be honest...don't worry we only have 12 years left on the planet anyway

Walensky said recently that 75% or more of the people who have died...oh, and I guess we are going to finally begin differentiating between "with and from" covid because it's now politically convenient, 75%+ percent had at least 4 co-morbidities and stated "So really these are people who were unwell to begin with" and yes, really encouraging news in the context of Omicron."

while some constitute conditions that are not behavioral, the majority of people who have 4 co-morbidities are people who have not taken care of themselves for decades....obesity, diabetes, smoking, chronic lung disease, chronic kidney disease, liver disease, substance use disorders, heart conditions

A) if someone doesn't take care of themselves should you be surprised that they don't get vaxxed?

B) even vaxxed, they are teetering on the edge probably running on large daily doses of pharmaceuticals


so Wayne...how are you going to keep these people from dying or killing themselves?

are you going to hold them down and vaccinate them, and then chase them around with each booster to make sure they are protected and then monitor their diet and exercise to protect them from themselves?

well, he still wears his mask outdoors when he's by himself but not indoors when the sign on the door says "masks required"...so that's like...leading by example or something...:claps:


On the Fourth of July, President Biden said, “Two hundred and forty-five years ago, we declared our independence from a distant king. Today, we’re closer than ever to declaring our independence from a deadly virus.”

How’d that turn out?

he's also good at triumphantly making disastrously wrong statements and predictions :bl:

I had to go to Walgreens the other day to drop off a Fedex package...the parking lot was full and the lines inside were very long...it appeared that many people were there to buy test kits as their hands were full of test kits...there was not shortage of test kits, there were tables near the register stacked high with test kits...

the long lines were because there were a lot of people that wanted test kits...

clearly Walgreens was doing a terrible job selling the test kits in a timely manner :confused:

i don’t know Scott, he did call it “Floridah”, it’s tough to argue with that logic. low unemployment, very low taxes, people flocking there in huge numbers, those hicks can’t do anything right.

same in hartford suburbs yesterday, huge lines at pharmacies as test kits came in ( people never heard of amazon i guess) and stores short staffed.
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that photo in nantucket was perfect.

still waiting for that cancer cure.
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honest question....if you are young and healthy...why would you get vaccinated at this point?....the Pfizer CEO just admitted that his first two shots are not effective in stopping infection and spread same with the booster and also admitted that they are not as safe as they'd "hoped"....also said there would be an omicron booster in March which will be just in time for the disappearance of Omicron probably....Yale New Haven medical director believes Omicron wave will pass by March

the only reason for a young, healthy person to have an experimental drug injected into their body at this point, is that it "might" lessen some symptoms which they are highly unlikely to experience anyway without the injection....

if you are old and have lots of co-morbidities...sure...probably a good idea...otherwise:spin: sounds like drug pushers pushing more drugs


if they tell you the flu shot is not likely to stop you from getting and transmitting the flu and unless you are old and ill, it "might" lessen your symptoms a bit if you happen to catch it...are you getting the flu shot?

they wanted to hang every single covid death, whether "from" covid or "with" covid around trump's neck and it was entirely political...now they are trying to do everything they can to deflect, change definitions, shift blame, backpedal, skip rope and.....on ..

pretty remarkable to watch....no surprise though:)

but it’s fun watching them squirm when they get challenged in it.

sore reporter for the NYT who had said trump was responsible
for hundreds of thousands of deaths, is now saying that the death count isn’t something that the president can control, so let’s leave Biden alone.

Sounds fair. And perfectly consistent.
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but the vaccine didn’t even exist for
most of grumps
time dealing with covid, so why were all those deaths his fault?


You are as dense a lead

Trump never tried to take Covid seriously he lied and lied to the American people he said it would disappear..

But in your world goals to cure cancer or to tackle Covid are considered lies .

You prefer a man who sat on hands during Covid . And this same man sat on his hands on Jan 6th ..

Why do you prefer people aka Trump who make no commitments to the American people or just refuse to act for them or tell the Truth. All in the name of his self preservation

Your a poor judge of character
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Jim regurgitation of right wing talking points is not challenging anything or anyone

Your just trying to defend Trump for his inaction

You and the right are
suggesting that Biden has done a worse job handling the pandemic than Trump did, depend on several misleading bits of data. They also ignore the fact that coronavirus deaths in 2021 have disproportionately occurred in more-Republican areas.

And who feeds these people the lies against what would keep them alive.
The have Rs next to their names

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atta boy....

ummmm....Operation WARP Speed

but what about the democrat areas within those more republican areas?....hmmmm?

and define "more"

"Trump never tried to take Covid seriously"

When he implemented travel restrictions, the entire left said it was an over-reaction.

So when he does something bold, it's an hysterical overreaction. When he doesn't do something bold, he didn't take it seriously enough. Whatever he does (it doesn't matter what it is), you'll say it's wrong.

He oversaw the creation of a testing and vaccine-creating infastructure that didn't exist. Within a year, you could get a test the day you wanted it (not anymore!) and they were vaccinating about a million people a day.

"he lied and lied to the American people he said it would disappear"

Biden also said he would make covid disappear. How's that working out? He promised to cure cancer too. But last time i checked, it's still around.

But Biden didn't lie., no sir. Only republicans do that.

liberal=good, conservative=bad.

"You and the right are suggesting that Biden has done a worse job handling the pandemic than Trump did"

The data makes that clear. More cases, more deaths, much harder time getting a test now.

Biden also acted, well, you might say like an authoritarian when he issued vaccine mandates that have been struck down in some courts.

I'm old enough to remember when liberals liked to say that personal medical decisions (at least in the case of abortion) were none of the governments business.

Every doctor will tell you that the normal course of new viruses, is that they mutate, and subsequent mutations tend to be more contagious, but less severe, than previous versions. We could have been ready for this.

Of course Jim is ignoring all of January in Trumps total. Even if Biden wasn’t in office

according to OurWorldInData, which relies on Johns Hopkins University figures, cumulative deaths stood at 412,892 as of January 20, still significantly more than the 393,547 recorded under Biden through to December 19.

Omg say it ain’t so Actually people did the math

And yes this count will go up over the next 3 years if The unvaccinated
Remain
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When Biden has been in for a year, post what the deaths were for Trumps year and Bidens year.

Biden had significant advantages that Trump obviously didn't have. For most of Trumps year, there was no vaccine. By the time Biden got sworn in, we were vaccinating a million people a day. Plus, supposedly, Biden is a lot smarter, right? Plus, we had a year of experience that Trump didn't have the benefit of. Is any of that wrong?

Wayne, if Biden kept his campaign promise to beat covid, what do YOU think the data would show? Shouldn't there be a lot less deaths after a year of Biden's superior abilities?

What can you point to, that would indicate that Biden is beating covid?

Jim you are such a tool, I come hear now for the humor watching you flail away with each endless crusade you start and so I can occasionally poke fun. Hey speaking of religion, which I know your all over, the Pope just stated it’s a good Christian’s moral obligation to get vaccinated. OMG what a dilemma for the faithful who have to date bought into the anti vaccine nonsense.

"the Pope just stated it’s a good Christian’s moral obligation to get vaccinated"

Me, my wife, and kids are fully vaccinated. I've never, ever spoke against vaccines here. I don't understand why people aren't getting vaccinated. (Though with omicron and likely with future variants, the vaccines will likely be less crucial as it becomes even less deadly)

It's interesting, none of you libs here could comment on the low black vaccination rate, not one of you (either Wayne or Pete brilliantly suggested they were all black Republicans, THAT was hilarious). But you are all over conservative demographics with low vaccine rates. Why is that?

Are unvaccinated liberals less dangerous than unvaccinated conservatives? One would think so, based on how selective you all are about who you criticize for being unvaccinated, and who you give a pass to for being unvaccinated.

If you think you have ever made me "flail away", you are flattering yourself. All you can do is lob baseless insults, because I'm honest and thoughtful and can praise and criticize either side as facts warrant. Yes you've really got me on the ropes.

Why do you keep re asking the same questions over and over after the responses have been made and backed by actual data and events

What do you thinks is going to change

So Biden’s mandates haven’t saved any lives . same with masks promotion vaccines and booster

All roads lead back to guess who the unvaccinated and GOP messaging you insist isn’t happening
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The lefties are good at resorting to a sort of secular situational ethics that create a scenario or proposition that appears to be reasonable but actually contradicts or disregards a claim they've made in another situation.

For instance, re this thread, they go on and on about how lousy our health care is compared to other advanced countries, and how that depresses the overall health of the people of this nation. Yet, when they constantly posted statistics, week after week in 2020 that showed how Covid caused more deaths in the U.S., they disregarded all the differentiating demographic factors between us and the other advanced countries, including their own mantra about the relatively poor health of Americans, and blamed it all on Trump. Even though it was well known that dying of Covid was mostly a result of co-morbidity. The very co-morbidities that they claimed were disproportionately due to what they claimed was our poor health care system.

They conveniently forget about previous claims in other situations in order to advance an agenda in another situation. When it was pointed out in 2020 that the number of covid deaths was being inflated because hospitals were attributing all deaths to Covid even if patients were admitted for other reasons, it was sternly rebutted as being somehow insignificant. It didn't matter because even if the patient died of a heart attack, that might not have happened at that time if the patient didn't also have covid.

But now, Trump is gone, so we can probably admit, or even tamp down, the number of deaths due to Covid. We now can recognize the difference in dying "with" covid from dying "of" Covid.

That's a brand new question (never posted before), here it is again...

"if Biden kept his campaign promise to beat covid, what do YOU think the data would show?"

"So Biden’s mandates haven’t saved any lives"

Never came close to saying that. I'm certain they have saved lives. What I was talking about, was the constitutionality.

It would also save lives if the president mandated that people eat a plant based dies and walked 5 miles a day. That would save countless lives. But it would be unconstitutional.

Why do you keep claiming I said something, which I never even came close to saying? Is it because you can't respond to what I am sayong?

"All roads lead back to guess who the unvaccinated"

There were 100% unvaccinated before there was a vaccine. Yet deaths aren't dropping meaningfully, even though, what, 65% are vaccinated?

Not quite yet, because the democrats are horrified at the prospect of what is looming come November. So until then at least, covid is worse than Ebola, and Trumps policies and his followers are the only thing preventing us from eradicating covid.

Personally I'm still anxiously awaiting the eradication of cancer, which Biden explicitly promised. We lost my wifes mom to cancer in May, so that cure he promised really would have been nice to have at that time.

Jim maybe this post from a nurses perspective today will explain to you why everyone has been in a reactive catch up mode since this started. But in your pea brain reasoning because Biden came into office with a new vaccine and in his attempt to assure the country he would get it under control, that like magic (only if Trump won right) it would go away. This of course won’t fit into your narrative, but you will of course retort with, hey haven’t I always said this and haven’t I always said that; OMG you are THE most predictable and pathetic person posting on this board.

From a nurse’s eyes

I’ve been surrounded by a lot of different views of the global pandemic. I am entirely full of anger; I’ll do my best to keep all the emotions I’m personally dealing with out of these experiences and thoughts I’m about to share.

In the beginning of the pandemic, we were all scared. We didn’t know what this virus was. We didn’t know how it would affect our lives. I vividly remember the first case we thought we had in our ICU because the chest x-ray read “ground glass opacities.” We didn’t know how to protect ourselves. But time went on. Research was done as quickly as possible to figure out if it was spread via aerosolized particles, droplets, or if it was airborne. Protocols changed quickly within the hospital. Wear a mask, wear an N95… now add eye protection. Now you don’t need an N95 unless your patient is on the bipap or ventilator. Oh but now you only need an N95 if your ventilated patient has gotten an aerosolized treatment or their circuit has broken within the last 69 minutes. Things changed so rapidly because we were learning and gaining new information so quickly, while also trying to preserve resources- we weren’t prepared for this.

Now we’ve been going through this for nearly 19 months. We’ve got more N95s, more PPE, and by December 2020, we were vaccinating healthcare workers, first responders, and high risk patients. Now, you’re information overloaded. Overwhelmed by numbers, statistics, graphics of how many patients are in each hospital, and how many are covid and unvaccinated. You watch the news, you see restrictions implemented in attempts to keep others from being infected. Some see these numbers and graphics showing covid data and think we’re “trying to push an agenda.” But there’s so much more you don’t see. There’s such a limited view into the hospitals. You don’t see nurses sharing their stories, because we protect our patients’ privacy. But more and more, I’m realizing it might be our experiences that speak louder than numbers.

We do everything we can for our patients. Many patients come in short of breath, with low oxygen readings, we put them on oxygen, start medications including antivirals and steroids. But then that oxygen and medication isn’t enough. We keep turning the oxygen up, and up, and up, until we get to the point they have to wear a mask that forces air into their lungs. Soon, even that is not enough. They need to be intubated.

So Emily, RN, our charge nurse for the day, calls their family and tells them we can’t keep their oxygen up and it’s time to be intubated.

Caroline, RN hurries to the med room to grab medications to sedate and paralyze them so that our pulmonologist can intubate safely and quickly. Jessica, our respiratory therapist, grabs her RT friend Salina and they wheel in the ventilator.

Everyone dons their PPE and is ready at the patient’s bedside. Caroline pushes meds, RT handles the airway and tools necessary for intubation. Our pulmonologist intubates them. Angie, our rapid response nurse, records the events from just outside the room with the phone on speaker so she can hear inside.

After successful intubation, we put in a foley catheter, a nasogastric tube (tube in your nose or mouth down to your stomach so we can give you medications and nutrition). We get x-rays and labs. We start continuous sedation so the patient can comfortably tolerate the tube in their mouth that is anchored by a balloon in the trachea. The ventilator settings are immediately increased. When 100% oxygen isn’t keeping their oxygen levels up, we increase the pressure so that their lungs are kept open and hope for better oxygenation. Emily and Caroline hold their hand and watch the monitor hoping for their oxygen to get above 88%. When it doesn’t, the pulmonologist tells us to start the paralytic medication and flip them onto their stomach and hope that gravity helps recruit more of their lungs to oxygenate. Prone therapy is working and we are so glad to get their oxygen up into the 90s. We do this for four or five days. They’re not getting better and their blood pressure starts to drop. We start medications for this. It’s not working… their kidneys start to shut down, we start continuous dialysis.

Family comes and hangs onto every piece of hope we can offer. Each 5% decrease in the patient’s oxygen needs is a win. But it’s becoming more and more clear they won’t make it. We talk to their family- we talk about quality of life and what the patient would’ve wanted if we’d exhausted every life saving option. Their family knows they won’t want to live like this; they’ve come to realize they won’t get better. So a decision is made to turn our care from aggressive treatment to making the patient as comfortable as possible in their last hours.

Just a couple days ago, Emmy found herself taking care of Henry (name changed to protect privacy). Covid positive, unvaccinated just because he hadn’t had the time. On the ventilator, 100% oxygen. We’d tried everything. Prone, antivirals, steroids- all of it. But it was obvious he wasn’t going to recover from this. So his family came in and said their goodbyes and made the decision to make him comfortable. The family was appreciative of our care for Henry, but didn’t want to stay with him as he passed away. Respiratory therapy extubated him. Emmy, Emily, and I did what we could to make him comfortable with the morphine and ativan. Emmy held one hand, Emily had the other. I messaged the doctor back and forth to make sure we had what we needed for Henry as he took his last breaths. We stood at Henry’s bedside for minutes. We watched him take a few gasping breaths, we held his hand and turned his pillows. We made sure he wasn’t in pain. Emily and I watched tears slide down Emmy’s face and into her N95. Five minutes later, the monitor read asystole. No heartbeat. No breathing.

Henry was one of too many. Just this yesterday, we lost our patient Penny. Over the months, we’ve lost Gary, Joe, Tommy, Susan, Paulette, Chris, Carry, Richard, and so many more. (Names changed to protect privacy.)

People come to their own conclusions looking at the numbers and survival rates and brush it off. It’s not likely to affect them, so they don’t think too hard about it. Or, maybe it is too much information to process. But from my point of view, I see Henry, Susan, and Joe who didn’t deserve this.

We are so tired. Exhausted. Mentally and emotionally undone…. because we don’t see numbers. I see my patients and their family members. I see the grief and share it with them. Now, there’s a vaccine, which makes this virus preventable and/or so much more mild that patients wouldn’t need the hospital if they did get it. Some of my closest family members continue to decline to get the vaccine and I’m so frustrated and tired and angry.

I am a nurse and I will take care of my patients and be the best advocate no matter who you are or any choices you’ve made… but there’s a way to help, and that way is masking and getting the vaccine. Help us so that maybe we won’t be the one to hold your loved ones hand while they pass away. It’s an honor to be that person for these patients, but right now, it doesn’t have to be this way.

And maybe it’s not only my stories that the community needs to hear. They need to hear the stories of Kat, Sarah, Kellen, Crystal, Paige, Daniela, Katie, Kelsie, Jamie, Haley, Taylor, Sheryl, Natalie, Bre, Matt, and so many more taking care of our community during covid.

Emmy is a CIC nurse taking care of covid patients every day.

“I have participated in a minimum of 2 deaths per day in the last nine days. And one day there were five. In some of these cases, it’s not the doctor having the conversations with the families, it’s me. And somehow I’m the last person they’ll ever speak to while also being the person to listen to their heart beat the last time and tell their wife or husband “they’re gone.” Somehow I’m crying and grieving a person I never knew. Shouting in a dirty utility room. Putting myself in time out so I can walk into the next room while others live comfortably unaware.”

-Emmy, CICU RN

Conversations we have with our patients:

“Hi, my name is Emily, I’m one of the nurses caring for you. Here in a minute there are going to be a lot of people coming to your room. Your oxygen is not staying high enough anymore.”

“No honey, there’s nothing more you can do.”

“If we wait any longer, it will become an emergency and it’s better to do it now while you’re safe.”

“I’m so sorry, we can’t wait for your wife to come. There is no more time.”

“I can’t say how long you will need this.”

“I promise to do everything I can.”

“I’ll tell them you love them.”

And repeat.

"everyone has been in a reactive catch up mode since this started."

If you believe that, you'd give Trump a break because of it. But the lefties here say he's responsible for what happened, yet Biden somehow isn't.

I don't think Trump or Biden are doing spectacularly good or bad jobs at managing the virus. I'm not sure the president of a huge, free country can do a whole lot. Unlike the lefties, I apply that standard fairly to both men, I don't cherry pick when I apply it and when I don't, based on partisan politics.

Is that so pea brained?

"in his attempt to assure the country he would get it under control"

Is he getting it more under control? Doesn't look like it to me.