it's not about agreeing with one side or the other Eben, it's about recognizing that the Progressive Democrats are on a steady march toward big...no huge government statism, the rest of the democrats and a large number of republicans are on a slightly slower march toward big government...the indebtedness and unfunded liabilities that we are drowning in are the result of big government programs that were poorly conceived, mismanaged and corrupted by the same people that we've now given discretion and authority over our healthcare system (expecting different results?????)...these people cannot even pass a budget!!! the only faction of either party that is calling for fiscal sanity and a return the governing principles that established this republic are those that you refer to broadly as "To me the tea party is full of a bunch of middle class blue collar small business owners who think that they are a hell of a lot wealthier than they really are and who think that they are the ones who are being screwed by government"......got news for ya.....the regulatory state is screwing these businesses, government and those that support it's expansion or live at it's trough don't have much compassion for those that toil to fund it and them....the jobs that you complain have gone overseas are never coming back and even more will leave as the regulatory state expands and the desire to try to maintain a business with the government breathing down your neck constantly becomes less attractive.....

what exactly, if anything, do you agree with ?

Scott all I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem. The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened. Who's to blame for that??
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the Tea Party "points fingers at the poor as a big problem"...need to digest that one for a bit.....Eben..if you are working at your studio and maybe have a few employees and you discover that your local government is going to determine what you must pay your employees and what benefits you must provide and what they must include and raise your taxes and taxes on your sales and mail you new regulations to comply with on a regular basis and fine you for non-compliance on an arbitrary basis and you learn that you can relocate your business and avoid much of this are your really going to stay? it's why businesses relocate within the country and why businesses relocated off our shores...blame the busy bodies that think the purpose of government is to micro manage every aspect of life and business and who think their purpose is to dream up new and novel legislation, necessary or not to fix existent or non-existent problems to justify their own existence....whatever problems you want to cite or attribute to the private sector in terms of corruption, fraud, nepotism, favoritism and criminal behavior etc. pales in comparison to that which exists in the structures of government and public sector...and the products that the government apparently best produces are debt and dependence ....you are barking up the wrong tree

Scott explains it well concisely and specifically in a "conservative" way which may not appeal to you. Let me add to his comments in a more generalized somewhat esoteric way that might appeal to a "liberal."

Freedom is the "blame for that". Just as freedom is the blame for creating the jobs and wealth that were lost and for what the country was like before they were lost and what it would be if they weren't. And it will be freedom who will be to blame for the restoration of jobs and wealth if freedom is allowed to flourish.

But if freedom is too messy, too inefficient, too unfair, and too uncontrollable for the ruling class to allow in sufficient quantity to flourish as it must, then the diminishing of freedom in order to give those who control the power to direct our lives in THE way they proscribe, for their version of what is good for all, then the lack of freedom will be the blame for more dependence and wealth/job crushing debt.

This thread is gayer than Facebook.
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no freakin WAY ~~~~~ !!!!!
nuthin is GAYer than "in your Facebook"

Sit on my Facebook
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That would be fine if they were local organizations....but all 3 sites I listed bill themselves as a National Organization. And they want to be taken seriously on the National stage.

Take a kid who has just hit voting age...he is trying to be responsible and do the research to find his political identity, He goes to the Republican Party website and looks at their Platform, He goes to the Democrat Website and looks at their platform....then starts to look at the Tea Party and finds dozens of websites that are all over the place on what their platform is.

Its been said before....most voters are stupid....so why make it anymore difficult to them to identify with the Tea Party.

To me its a Marketing thing.....they should fire their marketing guy cause he's terrible :hee:

Who's to blame? IMO the American people are, it all could have been avoided if Ross Perot won the election PERIOD.

apples and oranges, they are not political parties as the democrat and repub party, they are issue oriented organizations....they may endorse candidates of any affiliation....just like the various unions...I'm sure that there is different wording in their various charters....you are attempting to lump anyone who identifies as a tea party member or affiliate as if there is one national organization and there is not...I'd prefer that they focus locally and not become a large centrally run from Washington organization lest they become one more spoke in the broken wheel...and if a youngster feeling their way or anyone else for that matter goes to those websites and is confused regarding what they claim to stand for....then they are stupid...and need a US History refresher course:uhuh:

go to this site and click any state on the right.....a myriad of local organizations..

http://www.teaparty911.com/info/loca...ode_island.htm

the difference between the tea party types and the unions being that the tea party types are organizing locally and nationally to protect their freedoms and the union types organize locally and nationally to protect their place at the trough.....


this is not accurate:

" that are all over the place on what their platform is."

True. There is no one organization that heads it up. But ids there anything on these sites, that contradicts anyhting on my list? I think my list is a pretty accurate reflection of the core values, and I'd like to know what about that Zimmy finds offensive. He has been asked that a few times, and I didn't see a response...

We mock, because it's easier to mock than it is to explain why the core values on my list are not in the best interests of the country. That's why we mock.

"I know is that the tea party points fingers at big government and the poor as a big problem"

You don't "know that", because it's patently false. We don't view the poor as a "problem", if we did, why do studies show that conservatives give more money to charity than liberals? What we see as a 'problem', i sthe liberal approach to poverty, which is to get the poor addicted to welfare, and this make it almost impossible to escape poverty. We want to help lift people out of poverty. Our approach, instead of giving them cash (which many use to buy cigarettes and alcohol), i sto help them aquire skills to better themselves. At least, that's the best solution for those that have the ability to help themselves. Is that offensive to you?

So whoever told you that the tea party views poor peope as a "problem", lied to you.

"The bigger problem is the fact that there are so many good jobs that are now gone. Outsourced. Poof. Just think what this country would be like if that never happened"

If that nevcer happened, then we'd all be paying twice as much for everything we buy. The economy became globalized, and China's cost of doing business is a lot lower than ours. One could argue that many Americans are better off for it, because many items are so much cheaper than they used to be.

The problem is that we need a better structure to get people the skills they need to transfer from manufacturing to the jobs that do exist...in another thread, somneone correctly mentioned that companies can't find qualified machinists. There are tons of healthcare jobs as well. Those are the fields that kids need to prepare for.

"Who's to blame for that??"

No one. It just happened, and there was no way to stop it.

we are leaving a mess for our children and their children, they will be forced to pay or suffer the consequences of inevitable collapse, and they will pay because they will not be allowed the choices nor enjoy the opportunity and are exposed through technology more than we ever have been...the sophists will blame the private sector for not creating enough wealth and employment or pay their fair share, the cynical will blame the tea party types for not doing enough or being organized with slick national marketing to improve their image and compete with the national media intent on tarnishing their image and influence, the philosopher kings will go about their business in Washington, spending millions on vacations funded through tax dollars while chiding the nation about shared sacrifice......such a state:uhuh:

We will indeed have much to answer for. We have known about this problem for decades, but lacked the political will to make the small sacrifices that would have solved the problem 40 years ago. As a result, we will be dumping about $100 trillion of debt on our kids, who had absolutely zero say in how that came to pass. The Tea Party doesn't like that prospect. In response, liberals say that we hate old people and poor people. Even Nebe believes that, and he isn't a kooky radical. But he has been duped by the liberal narrative.

The good news is, when the crash happens, and the 20 year-olds look to figure out just what happened, they will see that people like Paul Ryan said "gee, we need to right this ship", and then they will see that the next day, liberals made a commercial of Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff. That generation will know who tried to solve the problem, and who tried to buy votes today at the cost of dumping all that debt on subsequent generations. In a fair world, that will be the death of liberalism for that generation. When the crash happens, even Rachael Maddow will have a tough time denying that Paul Ryan was absolutely correct. She'll still deny it, but it will be harder for her to do it.