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Piscator 01-31-2011 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 832666)
Glad we can agree on something.

I would expect any business to do what it can within the law to create shareholder value. That firms like Countrywide did it in such a reckless manner would seem to put the blame on them first and foremost.

-spence

The fault lies with the people who took out the crazy loans. They are the ones accountable as they are the ones that signed the loan/contract.
I agree that lending standards were lowered way too much by the banks and also agree that banks didn't have had the best "business practices". They didn't look out for the people but do any banks really do that with all the ATM fee’s, hidden charges, etc? All of that aside, they didn't actually FORCE anyone to take out these loans. Anyone who took a hour of their time and looked into what these loans were and how they were structured (risks involved) before signing them should have been smart enough to figure out that it was a gamble to say the least. Now they don’t want to be held accountable for their gamble.
I feel the responsible folks out there who educated themselves before making the “largest purchase of their life” and did the right thing are now stuck paying for the “poor me” people who won’t take responsibility but turn all of the blame on the banks.
Makes me shake my head whether it's a house, car, boat etc when people are only interested in "the monthly payment" but don’t look at the other details.

PS. I can't spell, this site needs SPELL CHECK

spence 01-31-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piscator (Post 832675)
The fault lies with the people who took out the crazy loans. They are the ones accountable as they are the ones that signed the loan/contract.

I think we'd all agree that personal responsibility was a large contributing factor...as was predatory lending.

Quote:

PS. I can't spell, this site needs SPELL CHECK
Get Firefox, spell check is built in and works pretty well.

-spence

fishpoopoo 01-31-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 832064)

I still haven't seen any data that really backs this up...I guess I just don't have a clue.

-spence

You haven't seen any of the data, period.

Get your facts and timelines correct, first.

Read the actual source documents for the articles you cut and paste with a jaundiced eye.

Have you even read the 500+ pages that constitute the latest congressional report?

Probably not.

spence 01-31-2011 12:38 PM

Quote:

Feel free though to actually provide a counter argument for specific points rather than just flip petty insults. I think this topic is pretty well documented already and I'm always up to gain another perspective.
Bump.

-spence

fishbones 01-31-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 832680)
Get Firefox, spell check is built in and works pretty well.

-spence

Is that why every time you mean to type "lose" as in "not win", you type "loose" as in "not very tight"? I thought it was because you were a dummy, but maybe it's all the Firefox's fault. Is Firefox related to the Carfox?

spence 01-31-2011 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbones (Post 832710)
Is that why every time you mean to type "lose" as in "not win", you type "loose" as in "not very tight"? I thought it was because you were a dummy, but maybe it's all the Firefox's fault. Is Firefox related to the Carfox?

Probably. I've caught spell check changing my misspelled word to the wrong word on several occasions. I'm not a great speller to begin with...

-spence

Piscator 01-31-2011 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 832711)
Probably. I've caught spell check changing my misspelled word to the wrong word on several occasions. I'm not a great speller to begin with...

-spence

spelling is so overated :)

fishpoopoo 01-31-2011 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 832701)
As for actual data, I'm not qualified for analysis of raw numbers nor do I have the desire to make it a science project.

Then you have not earned the right to definitively adjudicate on the subject matter.

All you have is your opinion based on others cut and pastes.

Having said that, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this all out, if you have the patience to weave through all the data and the gov't publications.

spence 02-03-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:

Spence said...

Feel free though to actually provide a counter argument for specific points rather than just flip petty insults. I think this topic is pretty well documented already and I'm always up to gain another perspective.
Bump...

-spence

justplugit 02-04-2011 02:08 PM

At this point does it matter who's fault it is, except to
learn from the past ?

Point is he has had 2 years to fix it, but chose to spend his
time pushing his HC agenda. :(

fishpoopoo 02-07-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justplugit (Post 834102)
At this point does it matter who's fault it is, except to learn from the past ?

By unofficial counts, there were about three dozen strategists, pundits and wordsmiths who visibly called the credit crisis before it happened. I am privileged to be one of them, although I don't put myself in the same category of a publishing market strategist.

I do this sort of stuff for a living. Generally, if you can predict something to happen, with any degree of accuracy, you have a pretty good idea of what caused it to happen, regardless of what other people might be thinking or speculating after the fact.

Of the rabble (bankers and politicians) who don't like to have fingers pointed at them ... I quote Lord Keynes, who for once said something sensible:

Quote:

A sound banker (or politician), alas, is not one who foresees danger and avoids it, but one who, when he is ruined, is ruined in a conventional and orthodox way along with his fellows, so that no one can really blame him.
Translation: "We didn't see it coming, everybody else didn't see it coming, so ya can't blame us because it happened."

For the love of God, folks, wake up. First rule of investing is ... don't lose money.

I'll quote a seasoned portfolio manager, a genuine stock market pro with decades of experience, with whom I had the privilege of having lunch with last week:

Quote:

Folks nearing retirement age who bailed on the stock market when it blew up in '08 ... will NEVER earn their money back.
Let that sink in.

justplugit 02-07-2011 01:07 PM

All great points FPP, and ones for all to learn from.

"Folks nearing retirement age who bailed on the stock market when it blew up in '08... will NEVER earn their money back."

Decisions made on emotion almost never work out.


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