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There are also logistical considerations like tankers to refuel, AWACS, search and rescue etc... I just think it's pretty absurd that in this whole Clinton hate fest people would discount we had a lot of very smart and dedicated American's trying like hell to sort this out. |
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according to the book, a drone showed up ove rth ebattle, after the former SEALs asked for it. We have sent assets to the rescue with less than that. "The 2014 House investigation did look into this and found no assets that could have helped" Which means what, exactly? If there were 8 guys that could have been flown in (like Glen Doherty did), that could have made ALL the difference. "pretty absurd that in this whole Clinton hate fest " When she keeps flip-flopping about the video, she deserves an avalance of criticism. If there were no assets within a 12-hour flight time, that generates a new line of very fair criticism...why the hell wasn't there anything within a 12 hour flight radius of a well-known hotspot? Has anyone asked that? Whose job is it, to make sure that we don't send people into harm's way with no possible means of support, and why hasn't that person been publicly fired for this? A 12 hour flight time represents a huge chunk of the planet. If ther ewa snothing in that radius to help these people, that's almost as bad as if there were assets that were never sent. I can't fathom the reluctance to be outraged. That has zip to do with politics. And again, her behavior in the aftermath, was revolting. |
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We are told to get over it, that it has been covered over and over, that it just wasn't possible to get help there. Spence, and others, are not interested in the possibility that help could have gotten there in time, as did Doherty as you point out, or as the guys in the movie did, even though they didn't leave to help as soon as they could have or as they would have liked because some superior told them not to go. Such arguments are of no interest to Spence, and others. The bunch of "investigations" supposedly tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help them Big Bang. Also of no interest to Spence, and others, is the question of, ultimately, why (as you ask over and over and get no answer) were there no resources available for a situation like Benghazi. Spence, and others, are not interested in that question. They are only focused like a laser on the bunch of "investigations" which say that the resources were not available. Or, I should say, they are focused on THAT PART of the bunch of "investigations" which say that resources were not available. But, strangely, the bunch of investigations did reveal a great deal of incompetence in all facets of the Benghazi situation. And much of the answer to your questions is revealed in that part of the bunch of "investigations." But the answer to your questions, as revealed by that part of the bunch of "investigations," could be, if explored too closely, very embarrassing to the beloved Hillary. And so there is this myopic insistence on the end conditions, not the preliminary planning. Even though it was the preliminary planning which set in unanswerable stone the "fact" that no resources were available. Of course, that part of the bunch of investigations is easily dismissed as some impersonal "systemic" failure. Actual names and people are not identified, and, somehow, the beloved Hillary is not involved in the system snafu. Ambassador Stephens is an exception to the anonymity as he is heavily implicated in the systemic snafu. As wdmso points out, "He repeatedly asked for more security . . . but again he felt it was safe to be in Benghazi He's the Boss" By this assertion, it is clear that the Ambassador suffered from a sort of schizophrenia. He repeatedly asked for more security even though he felt it was safe. Now, the beloved Hillary, had ultimate trust in this schizoid person, and gave him the Ambassadorship not because she is a poor judge of such things . . . after all, she was secstate and is about to be POTUS. Her obvious, apparent, and well documented accomplishments qualify her for the high and highest callings in our nation. After all, she WAS the wife of the most popular President in the past half century. And she IS a woman. Her impeccable qualifications would argue against her being a poor judge of such things. And there was no reason whatsoever for her not to sign off on his idea of a low, actually nonexistent, profile of American power stationed in his compound. (Maybe not even having resources available to get there in time.) There is absolutely no doubt that she knew how dangerous the situation was in Libya. But she just knew that it was a good plan. It would show the Libyan people that we trusted them and that they should trust us. It was, actually, a brilliant plan. It came from the highest ideals in human nature. It was that kind of motherly, nurturing love that only women are capable of. That she didn't consider that there were these brutish men roaming about with the basest, most cruel, instincts, should not be an indication of poor judgment. Or maybe she actually did consider it, but the good people of Libya, after all, would protect our people because we showed them our trust and love. And we must understand that it was systemic failure, not her judgment, that led to the death of our people. And we must be pointed to folks under Hillary within the "system" as being the source of systemic failure. After all, as wdmso points out, Stephens was "the Boss." Well, actually, Hillary was the Boss. |
Spangdahlem in Germany has a squadron of F16C/Ds - 1500 miles away
Aviano in Italy has 2 squadrons of F16C/Ds - 850 miles away Both of those locations, if they had anything approaching alert, might have A2A loaded and not A2G Lakenheath UK - has 2 squadrons of F15E Strike Eagles which are probably the ideal kit in central/western Europe for something like this. (2 F15Es made the round trip from Lakenheath in June 2015 to early retire some bad guys in Libya so yes it can be done) Pro: with the right loadups they could have been effective (or really overkill) and the guys on the ground did have laser designation devices. Ideal would have been an AC130 or even Reaper UAVs with Hellfire (better for small targets) but a Reaper would have been at extreme range limits with little to no loiter time if out of Sigonella. Just doesn't have the legs. There have been discussions on whether or not AC130s were in Italy or not. Onsite was (reportedly) an RQ4 Global Hawk which I do not believe can be armed. So I believe reports of an armed drone onsite are false. Other US assets in range: Navy - nothing really in range, nearest CSG was 3,000 miles away. Air Force has B1Bs in Qatar and looks like some AC130 (GoogleMaps that date window) but they would not have the speed to get on station for hours (The B1s could). Might have something at Al Dahra, UAE (F15Es). Nothing is available without heavy tanking support. Interestingly, SOEUR with US ARMY SOF and Navy Seal units are stationed at Panzer Kaserne (worked there when well wet behind the ears) which is just down the street from Patch Barracks EUCOM and Kelly Barracks HQ AFRICOM - both which would have been heavily interested and listening into what was going on in Benghazi. And they would want to get down there quick but would not have been down in time. |
Seems many suffer a lack of Perspective of the big picture and just ingnore certain explanations unless they follow the rights narrative of how it all went down no matter all the investigations that fail to support their version?
Avano air base f16 are tasked with supporting. Afgan mission. They are not pre staged to cover Libya as they were when we conducted mission over Libya Here is a real world example In Iraq I called in 9nine medivac after an ied strike on my convoy we had to use a mtc which was text message because our radios could not reach our base at : alasad which was 2 hrs away . from the time the ied blew up the truck secured the area treated the guy i called the medicvac and it landed with cobra escort 2.5hrs later . from an air base with mediavac on station..in an active combat zone . perspective. We all wish the outcome would have been different. Clearly it could have been worse Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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Of course, the narrative of the "left" only focuses on the effect, that there was no way that help could have arrived in time. So that's that. That's the only picture that counts. That's as big as the picture needs to be. Shut up and get over it. |
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what does it matter?...shut up and get over it! |
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F16s were at Aviano. Quote:
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Again just saying if it took me 3 hrs to get a medvac from a base 2 hour drive and 30 min flight.time In an active combat zone Not sure why some find 12 hrs to respond someplace not in an active combat zone. With cia assets on the ground which I am sure only a few higher officers even knew they were there .. With 2 spontaneous attacks
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Instead we should fixate on long-since discredited conspiracy theories. |
So, just saw the movie, good considering it is based on a horrible situation. Authentic mostly and pretty true to the book.
Seemed fair with established facts and did tread a bit into the unestablished. |
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Maybe Clinton had an affair with him and he threatened to go public ;)
Maybe there was a video to blame.... Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device |
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my flavor names were much better though:uhuh: I don't think I'd eat it based on the name...ick#@!$ http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know...ders-ice-cream |
What happened to the movie? Oh yes, it's supposed to not be very good.
FOX News of course is blaming liberal movie critics...because conservatives take accountability for their actions. |
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It was pretty good, as John said, fairly true to the book. But not a documentary. |
Spence is clearly losing what is left of his mind
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He is devoted, that's for sure. When Nixon left in disgrace, I think his approval rating was around 25%. Spence is at least that devoted. |
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Actually, if this were a fiction movie not based on the death of 4 people it would be excellent. The fact that four people did lose their lives and many others suffered varying levels of injury prevents (me at least) from rating the movie with stars. Is it worth seeing? Abosultely. Is it worth seeing just as a movie and forgetting its association with RL? Yes. |
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Just a phone call away, was that even considered during the attack ???? |
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If your recollection allows, did they call Turkey, where we have bases,
and at 1300 miles from Libya would be less than an hour for a jet fighter ? Can't believe there wasn't one plane , if not readied, could be readied in short time. |
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And forget about drones - Predators are around 100kts (and don't have the range. The rumored Predator must have already been on station for other purposes - unless it was another drone (Reaper or GH) which had longer range and could have been further out. From a realistic view only Aviano and Spangdelham (an extra hour in just flight time) were practical and it would need to have some level of alert status, available tanking, host nation permission, and some luck - oh and a properly operating State department. The guys on the ground would move heaven and earth for these people if the information was known. |
Thanks John. Plausible explanation.
I remember Bush saying we were at war with a new kind of enemy after 9/11 and would need to fight differently. That was 15 years ago, and the talk of small highly trained, quick response groups to respond to terror attacks is evidently not complete. Of course cutting the military budget has not helped. |
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