It was the Army Corp of Engineers that approved the dumping of mining debris into Slate Lake in Alaska, "not Sarah Palin."

First of all you should hate the Bush Administration, it was his administration that re-defined mining debris in2002 including toxic mining waste as fill. The word "Fill" took away disposal decisions from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Army Corp of Engineers. And when the Supreme Court weighed in they ruled in favor of the Corp. This ruling also cleared the way for mountain top mining in the Appalachian states.

And on another note, the person you helped to become your president does not have any better credentials then Palin.

Aside from the legal qualification, which they both meet/met, the rest is highly subjective.

I think their political careers are somewhat of a wash. Palin gets a few points for limited executive experience as Gov, but there's not much beyond that. Obama has more years in the US Senate and IL House, but without much of note.

Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume.

Ultimately though, people are looking for vision, intellect and integrity.

Ideology aside, even in 2008 it was clear that Palin hadn't really put much thought into how the world works and we never got much out of her other than snarky quips. Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length and demonstrated the intellectual curiosity that indicated a lot more substance.

So I'd argue that Obama's credentials were really much better. The proof is in the putting...Obama is POTUS and Palin is on reality TV.

God help the GOP if they can't put her in a box come 2012. Republicans need to get back to leadership and legislation and off this pundit led bender they've been on for the past 15 years. When Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are the thought leadership of your party you've got problems.

-spence

funny how so many Obama voters feel the need to tell the GOP how to be successful :confused:

in "reality"...Obama's a dud:uhuh:

Remember the medical student that went to Harvard, he was not to intelligent.

Agreed. He may be of higher learning and comes from Harvard, does not make him highly intelligent, after all, he needs to use a telepromter, she does not, she does not have to keep putting her head to the podium to read someone else's script either.

The bottom line: I would rather find her pocketbook then his wallet.

Oh, please, Spence...

"I think their political careers are somewhat of a wash. Palin gets a few points for limited executive experience as Gov, but there's not much beyond that."

At the time Obama announced he was running, he had served one half of one term as a US Senator, and in that time, he had done nothing significant. Nothing. You go ahead, and tell us what significant legislagtion Obama authored from 2004-2007.

At the time Palin was picked as VP, she had the highest approval ratings of any governor in the country, which means she was the very best governor in the country. She had exposed significant political corruption in her own party, she lowered taxes, balanced the budget, and got the oil companies to give her citizens a fortune in profit sharing. What did Obama do from 2004-2007 that's better than that?

"Academically Palin's a dud while Obama enjoys a very impressive resume"

Palin has a Bachelors degree from, I think, the University Of Iowa? Obama wwent to Harvard. Bush 43 also went to Harvard, and that didn't keep liberals from claiming he's an idiot, so obviously one's alma mater doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence. Furthermore, you don't know Obama'a acadmic resume, because unlike most presidents, he refused to make his transcripts public.

"people are looking for vision, intellect and integrity."

Integrity? How about sitting in Rev Wright's church for 20 years, and listening to that racist, anti-American bile? Or Obama admitting that although he didn't know what happened, "it's fair to say the Cambridge police acted stupidly".

More on integrity...as a state senator, Obama actually supported the right of a mother to have her baby killed, after tha baby was born and outside the womb (look up the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, as I am not kidding or exaggerating). Palin, on the other hand, feels that even babies with Down Syndrome deserve to live.

Obama is more slick, more smooth, and more presidential in personna. Palin is a regular American with values that are more reflective of this nation, which like it or not, is center-right.

"Obama by contrast could discuss policy issues at length"

Right. Like his opposition to the surge in Iraq, which everyone but Obama adnmits was a spectacular success.

Put down the Kool Aid for one second please, and look at things objectively.

He'll put down the kool-aid after you stop regurgitating like a booby with a newborn chick glenn beck bs.

Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record - August 18, 2008 - The New York Sun

Didn't he go to Yale and almost flunk out?

so you support socialist agendas?

also she promised the oil companies the north slope and ANWR.
too bad that didn't work out for them.


you don't get something for nothing.

Likwid, did you even read your link? If you want to refute my claim that Obama supported infanticide, you need more than an article quoting Obama as saying "I never supported infanticide".

Obama absolutely did support infanticide as a state senator in IL. Don't take my word for it, and don't take his word for it. How about factcheck.org.

FactCheck.org: Obama and 'Infanticide'

A quote...

"We find that, as the NRLC said in a recent statement, Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus."

FACT...in IL, some babies somehow survived abortions. In some cases, the moms told the doctors not to care for those babies, who were allowed to whither and die. On multiple occaasions, proposed bills would have required doctors to care for those babies, and on multiple occasions, Obama worked against those bills, because he was afraid that if those babies were considered "human beings", then that protection might be extended to fetuses in the womb.

He says he would have supported a state bill that looked more like the federal version? WELL, IF THAT'S TRUE, AND HE'S SUCH A GREAT LEGISLATOR, WHY DIDN'T HE WRITE A BILL WHICH HE SAID HE WOULD SUPPORT? Babies were being left to die in agony, and he blocked a bill to protect them because of a provision he didn't like? So why didn't he fix the proposed bill for God's sake?

Give it up, likwid. I do my research first, then I decide what to think. That means I can support my claims when I say things like "Obama supported infanticide".

If you want to insult me, that's easy. If you want to show I'm WRONG, do some more homework.

Bush got his bachelors degree from Yale, and an MBA at Harvard. I don't know what his grades were. I do know that no one knows for sure if Obama got better grades, because he won't release his transcripts.

That's what I know.

In my opinion, a Harvard alumni isn't necessarily more intelligent than someone who graduated from a public school. We can debate that obviously.

I just get ticked when Obama's supporters point out that he went to Harvard, as i fthat automatically means that makes him smart. Thos esame liberals didn't hesitate to call another Harvard alumn, Bush, an idiot. They want it both ways, and it's inane.

Likwid, so instead of simply admitting that she actually did some good, you have to ask what you think is a "gotcha" question.

I don't think that Palin's decision to force oil companies to share profits with Alaskan citizens constitutes "socialism", and here's why. As Palin pointed out, that oil is a natural resource on public lands, and as such, it belongs to the citizens of Alaska, it doesn't belong to the oil companies.

But to answer your question, I supoprt socialism to a point, in that I believe that the rich and the strong have a duty to serve the poor an dthe weak. You could argue that my service in the USMC was a form of socialism, because I felt obligated to try to help others.

You might be suprised (since you don't seem to know a lot of facts) that not all conservatives are as cold-hearted as liberals claim. In fact, many studies show that conservatives give way more time and money to charity, than liberals do.

Snack on that...

"you don't get something for nothing"

Tell that to everyone who gets a welfare check in the mail, when they don't have to lift a finger to earn it. Why can't those peoplpe, at least the ones physically able, do somehting like picking up garbage in parks?

I'm not a big fan of Palin in anyway, but I do like the show. Last nights show about hunting with her Dad in the remote areas above the Artic Circle was pretty good. She sure does not appear to have let fame change her much.

Is this the same guy that many said, "if only he had articulated and explained
his programs better to the American People ,he wouldn't have taken the shellacking?

Exactly. Obama is touted as this brilliant and effective orator, the best speaker since Churchill. Yet those same folks say that the only reason that the GOP won big last month is because Obama didn't clearly tell us why his agenda is what's best for us.

This is a great example of why I say that liberalism is a mental disorder. Obama's supporters don't see any contradiction in what you pointed out, they really don't.

Actually, if you were using this term prior to 2005 in public forum's, I'd sue Michal Savage, since he published a book with that very same title....

OK, so here Spence says that Obama is more qualified to be Prez than Palin because he can speak more intelligently on the issues. That sounds reasonable, right?

But here is what Spence said recently about the GOP's victory last month...and I quote directly...

"independents frustrated with Obama's inability to clearly articulate the value of his policies. "

Which is it Spence? Is he someone who can speak eloquently and brilliantly on the political issues? Or is he someone who cannot effectively explain political issues to tens of millions of Americans?

Spence, you are one of those folks who have no limit to how far backwards you will bend over to make up excuses for this guy. He's never wrong, and nothing is ever his fault.

It was her excuse for allowing drilling in a WILDLIFE REFUGE.

Just like 'making jobs' is her excuse for allowing Pebble.

Yep, make 5 jobs at the cost of 20 ways of life that also provides an income (that has lasted longer and will last longer than the mine will).

BRILLIANT!

this is a lay up without the fat lip and stitches....

Obama clearly articulated perfectly for the last two years in a way that all of the liberal, enlightened elitists could understand with their heads nodding and noses in the air....

he did not, however, articultate in a way that stupid, scared unenlightened neanderthal rubes could grasp....

guess he has some work to do...

Likwid, please tell me where there is drilling in a wildlife refuge? I didn't think there was any, but I'm not certain. And if so, what damage has been done?

The pipeline, which delivers oil, runs through wildlife refuges in Alaska. Liberal idiots warned that would decimate the caribou herds, yet the herds are thriving (and now, so is the Alaska economy). That's what you call win-win, and it would not have happened if the Kool Aid-drinkers called the shots. Oil in Alaska has meant that modern schools, airports, and medical clinics were funded in all of the remote communities, vastly improving quality of life.

MMMMMM I wonder what type of degree G Washington had or Lincoln or good old Andy Jackson... We seem to forget that this is supposed to be a democracy, If your a citizen of the United States of America you have the right to run for and hold political office and in some states that's even with a criminal record.Get off your high horses. Some of the stupidest an most narrow minded people out there have so many DEGREE'S and look so good on paper you'd think they could walk on water.On paper don't mean didly when it comes to being a boss and having integrity.You need the back bone to stand up and represent your country not an idioligy or idea.We've lacked that for a while as everyone seems more worried with the world economy instead of ours.Just some input . Ron

Well, she is certainly showing her POTUS credentials on next week's episode when she takes Kate Goslin (THAT Kat Goslin) and her brood camping.. Seriously? What's next? Fishing with Snooki and The Situation?

Let me get this straight, I want to make sure I understand. A TV show that shows what a close-knit family the Palins are, that takes place in thwe outdoors, is un-presidential. OK, I actually agree with that.

How about a guy who sits in Rev Wright's church for 20 years? A guy who has a political fundraiser hosted by an admitted, unrepentent terrorist, who put pipe bombs in police cars?

Please tell us how those thiings are more presidential than what Palin is doing.

Jim:
I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials.

She is a sell-out, period.
She left her office where she was this supposedly great Governor to make money and be a celebrity. She can spin it as it is what she needs to do, I say BS.

She wants a reality show to showcase Alaska, fine, I can deal with that, except then you bring in the queen of trashy, crappy reality TV, Kate Goslin, and expect to be taking seriously? Please.

Yup. If we ever get back to integrity, true representation of the people,no
personal agendas, and common sense, we will be on the road to healing the
divisions.

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND
Jim:I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials....then you bring in the queen of trashy, crappy reality TV, Kate Goslin, and expect to be taking seriously? Please..
yes, because relationships with terrorists and America hating radicals tell us absolutely nothing about the character of our President but... Sarah meets Kate...now there's something that we as Americans should be greatly concerned about....pretty interesting :uhuh:
hey, Oprah had Mike Tyson and Al Gore on her show...talk about sleazy, lying dirtbags....she must have no credability with you


let's see...

Rush and Sarah, two people that love America, espouse traditional American values, American exceptionalism and freedoms and adherence to our Constitutional principles

versus

Barack Obama and George Soros

two men with great disdain for America and who wish to transform it into a European Style Socialist Welfare State........

tough call.....

clearly, the democrats don't have any leadership "problems"....right?
I think the word "seething" is being used to describe them this morning :rotf2::rotf2:

she's hot in camo too!

"I'm not rehashing the tired debate of Wright and Ayers, and am not in this thread for the Obama vs Palin credentials."

Let me make sure I got this right. You point out her flaws, which I actually agree with. When I point out that Obama had similar (in my opinion worse) flaws, you dion't want to talk about those because they are "tired" points to you.

That's what liberals do. When you make a valid point, they end the debate. Usually by claiming racism. At least you didn't play that card.

A serious person might try to explain why Obama's associations are less eggregious than Palin's associating with Kate.

If you want to say it's un-presedential to do a reality show, I agree with you, you don't need to convince me. However, I happen to have an easier time swallowing a one-time appearance with Kate Gosselin than a lifelong intimate frienship with Rev Wright, or a long-term political relationship with a would-be mass murderer like Ayers. I think my point i srational and valid, you dismiss it as "tired" without even atempting to address my point.

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;If you want to say it's un-presedential to do a reality show, I agree with you, you don't need to convince me. QUOTE]

is it "un-presidential" or an appropriate display of "POTUS credentials" .... particularly when you are actually "the President" to have sex with an intern in the Oval Office repeatedly ? declare your granny a "typical white person" with racist biases in a National broadcast ?....call the Cambridge Police "stupid" in another National Broadcast? ...just wondering...don't really want to rehash old stuff....but.....you are exactly right Jim....the things that concern and do not concern them are mind boggling...we are on the verge of collapse and some are indignant over Sarah's guest on her little tv show as though she is the threat to our future rather than the radical that they voted for and the jackels that he's intalled in our government...God help us.....

let's do this...for those that are upset about Palin as a Presidential hopeful....


Larry Agran
Jerry Brown
Bill Clinton
Bob Kerrey
Tom Harkin
Paul Tsongas
Douglas Wilder
Tom Laughlin
Eugene McCarthy
Al Gore
Jesse Jackson
John Kerry
Howard Dean
Bill Bradley
Lyndon LaRouche
Al Sharpton
John Edwards
#^&#^&#^&#^& Gephart
Dennis Kucinich
Carol Moseley Braun
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
Mike Gravel?

You're mixing issues here.

As a campaigner, Obama did a very good job of articulating his individual positions on policy...this isn't the same as an Administration controlling a complex political dialogue that influences public opinion.

Clearly then you don't read very well. You just quoted me being critical of Obama and then in almost the same breadth accuse me of fealty.

-spence

Agree, reality TV bothering bears in the wild is akin to talking about Jesus. Excellent point...

-spence

Obama speaks quite often and quite well on his own. Perhaps there's a dependence or desire for highly refined messages that's distracting...I think that's a reasonable criticism, but to cite it as an intelligence issue doesn't make a lot of sense. There's just too much evidence to the contrary.

Palin of course rarely speaks in sentences longer than will fit on a Tweet, and when in doubt will write secret notes on her hand for reference...what was it again? Energy, Budget Cut, Tax and Lift American Spirits? Man...she much really be speaking from the heart...

-spence