this is insane

he was abducted by aliens and they planted it in his brain

fixed it

Scott you will defend him even if it means going down with the ship, we all understand it, it colors every post of whataboutism you put up.

Reckless impulsive foreign policy that kills alliances, harms our allies, betrays the men and women fighting along side the Kurds is wrong. Abandoning the brave Kurds who have been our foot soldiers, who sacrificed over ten thousand with an equal number wounded to help our cause sends a clear message to the world; agreements and alliances with Trump mean absolutely nothing.

Gee I wonder why China walks away quickly every time they meet.

when have I ever defended him? I don't like him but I like the democraps a lot less....

you, on the other hand, are on a relentless, mindless jihad

The guy posts nutty crap and then looks up to see if I will acknowledge his drivel. Very strange cat.
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Nutty like echoing the concerns being voiced by diplomats, military and security experts about how wrong this move in Syria is, yup crazy sh*t.
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says a lot about where you are looking.

i’m not saying it was a good idea, but i looked to see what arguments were being made by those who support it ( rand paul, etc).

trump campaigned very specifically on bringing home troops rather than leaving them in endless conflict. you guys like to attack him for failing to meet campaign promises, this is one he kept. trump can argue this is why people voted for him.

as i understand it, we were authorized to have troops in syria to combat ISIS. as i understand it, that mission was accomplished some months ago. if congress wants to expand the scope of that mission, they should
go on record and vote for it.

i also don’t feel like i know who the good guys are in this conflict. are the kurds good guys, or was it an “enemy of my enemy” situation. turkey says the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey, you made it sound like a britain/northern ireland situation.

americans are dying there. trump made it clear in his campaign that he wasn’t sacrificing american lives unless there was an immediate vital
interest to the us. killing isis fighters qualifies. standing around, waiting to get sucked into a regional conflict with another nato member? not sure if that qualifies.

and if trump claimed
we were staying there until the end no matter what, at least some of you would
be calling him a warmonger.

if you can’t see where the other side is coming from, it’s because your eyes are closed and your fingers are in your ears. and again, i’m not saying i support the move, not at all. but i took the time
to see both sides.
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President Trump has decided that now the Kurds do not count for much and, despite his denials, he has given the Turks a green light to mount this operation by failing to make it clear to Ankara that this partnership really mattered to Washington.

He had that chance and if he was properly prebriefed with talking points and made aware of the ramifications of his actions possibly he would not have folded like a cheap suitcase.

This is not the first time that the Kurds see themselves as having been f-ed by Washington. At least twice before when Iraqi Kurds were encouraged to rise up against the authorities in Baghdad by the Americans they were let down.

If Trump is to be taken at his word, alliances - whether it be with the Kurds or even within Nato - are for him simply transactional business arrangements to be judged according to a short-term cost-benefit analysis: what is the US giving and what is it getting in return?

The US tried every other option before backing the Kurds. The Kurds have proved time and again their capability as a disciplined, effective fighting force and their commitment to the kind of stable, moderate governance that is sorely lacking in the region.

In writing off the Kurds he suggests that the US can easily find other allies in the region. Really?

If there is a resurgence of ISIS then who is Washington going to turn to?

We will end up sending those young men that you claim to not want there because Trump at a minimum did not pay attention or used his great and wonderful brain instead of listening to people with experience in the area.

We will likely be tangled up in the Middle East either for a long time semipeacefully or until it deteriorates into a major conflict and the #^&#^&#^&#^& hits the fan.
Who knew that governing would be so complicated, you can't do it by tweeting and bullying.
It looks like it could be very close to fan time.

we have two “allies” here, and they really hate each other. how many american lives are worth sacrificing on the altar of that hate, when we had nothing to do with that hate, and no one has been able to address the hate in that region.

that’s the argument to withdraw. do what we can to pressure each side to leave the other alone. would
be nice if the UN could find a way to do something useful.
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The same people you cite as wanting to pull out of the Middle East also want to decimate the UN.

While tribal conflicts have always existed in the ME, read the Bible, they were exacerbated by the Division of the Ottoman Empire after WW1.

whatever. the conflict has always been there. there is an argument to be made that while
we should
never stop trying diplomacy, military intervention should
be limited to cases where the US has a vital interest.

is that really so absurd? put aside
your hate of trump, and ask if that’s so absurd? obama pulled us out iraq when he announced he was going to.
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He pulled out 50 people and flushed an ally down the tube with no plan or consultation other than to pull out.

Trump is always transactional, what did he get for letting Turkey do that without a fight and when did he really know Erdogan was going to invade?
This operation was not planned between the phone call on Sunday and Monday when the attack started. Trump's shadow minister met with Erdogan after meeting with MBS in late February, Erdogan went silent on Kashoggi.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.

You forgot the growing humanitarian and terrorism crisis, they're connected also.

A comment from Dan Crenshaw

The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.

America 1st
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you can argue the presence keeps turkey at bay. how many american lives is that worth?

pete, a speck of honesty would
mandate that you don’t only look at the benefit of leaving the troops there. you have to compare the benefit and the cost. everything looks swell when you celebrate the benefit and pretend there’s no cost.

and again, trump campaigned
on this, his victory doesn’t suggest to me that americans want troops
there forever.
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The kurds didn't help in WW 2 or at Normandy..

The stupid sh it never stops
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Six deaths vs over 10,000 with as many wounded, but hey guys thanks for the help; now go fu*ck yourselves.
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6 american deaths. that’s supposed to be the main concern for our president.

are the turks wrong when they say the kurds are engaging in terrorism in turkey? sincere question.
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well if i’m stupid
and you’re not, tell
me why another nation can’t pony up and put a few dozen troops there. why is it always us, and only us?
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Jim I agree as the historical lead nation and peace keeper of the free world, at times we all wonder why does that burden fall on us, well it is because we WANT to be the leader. This withdrawal using your thought process might possibly have been accomplished with a president who valued our European allies and sought the UN and our allies to tag in and give our troops a respite. That is a giant stretch for Trump and I really believe he couldn’t care less about our Kurd or European allies, this was either about trying desperately to distract from the impeachment, fulfill a campaign promise or worse; protect family financial interests in Turkey.
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It’s not always us, that is you buying Trump’s lies.

Jim, we have a NATO member violating the charter with Trump’s approval. Who came to our aid after 9/11? It’s insane what is going down.
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"we WANT to be the leader"

We DID lead in Syria. We were there by ourselves for years. If we take a 3 year hitch, then ask someone else to take a turn (after the heavy fighting against ISIS is behind us), does that mean we aren't the leader anynore? I don't think so. I can't think of any definition of "leader" that precludes the leader from ever receiving assistance.

"That is a giant stretch for Trump and I really believe he couldn’t care less about our Kurd or European allies"

You may be right. I'm not trying to read his mind, just evaluating the pros and cons of the withdrawal.

You made some good points in this post, points I agree with 100%.

I'd really like to know who the good guys are in the Kurd-Turkey feud. I still have no idea how to feel about it. I see pros and cons on both sides.

If they're violating the charter, why isn't NATO responding? And what standards are the Kurds violating, if they're in fact supporting terrorism in Turkey, which you made it sound like they were.

Whos calling you stupid ? That above statment was from Trump

Why us.. isolationism is dangrous .. how about letting China fill our void .. let them take a turn. Or Russia. how many Syrian refugees have NATO countries taken and how many have we ? 50 or 1000 troops seems like a fair compromise
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US joins Russia to scuttle UNSC action on Turkey’s invasion of Syria
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one thing that people on both sides do when they have a weak position and know it, is accuse the other side of extremes.

i’m not an isolationist. i’m suggesting that an argument can be made that if we’re in syria long enough to complete the mission against ISIS ( and i haven’t heard anyone say that isis still has a meaningful presence there), that maybe it’s time for someone else to take a turn.

just because i don’t necessarily want to be there forever, doesn’t make me an isolationist. does it?
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But yet you complain that Obama pulled out of Iraq and caused isis
How long were you willing to stay there hindsight is always 20/20

Yet now as if by magic Isis is defeated .And once again Trumps getting picked on. Talk about a weak position

ISIS IS also an idea the west hasn't killed that and Trukey is relighting that candle.. And Trump has destroyed the idea that the US is a dependable partner .. that decades of treasure and American lives were used to forge such an image. Even some Republican have have spoke out against Turkey.. the country not the T in the oval office
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Trump constantly boasts how savvy a businessman he is, yet clearly he doesn’t understand you don’t give up on an investment with an ROI that’s out of the park. A very small personnel investment at the boarder was holding back what will now be a devastating outcome and lead to yet another humanitarian crisis. If you think those men and women aren’t upset they have abandoned there partners I think you are kidding yourself.
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Saw this on FB from duffel blog:rotflmao:

He pulled out 50 people and flushed an ally down the tube with no plan or consultation other than to pull out.

Trump is always transactional, what did he get for letting Turkey do that without a fight and when did he really know Erdogan was going to invade?
This operation was not planned between the phone call on Sunday and Monday when the attack started. Trump's shadow minister met with Erdogan after meeting with MBS in late February, Erdogan went silent on Kashoggi.

Trump Tower Istanbul, Kashoggi, MBS, Kushner the shadow minister and his funding from the Middle East.
They are all connected.

Your father should have pulled out.
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Ive said it here already there is no way The US wasn't aware of the build up prior to the phone call .. this operations was months in the planning and execution... it takes a year of planning and coordination for 1 national Guard unit (less than 1000 men )in the States to plan and conduct their 2 week annual Training .. it's only fast in the Movies

FYI Turkey, which incidentally was also not at Normandy in WWII. not sure if Trump was aware

America actually is not locked into pointless “endless wars” in the Middle East. We have troops there for the same reason we keep troops in other parts of the world — to preempt threats to our homeland, deter aggression and protect America’s far-flung interests. Their mission is counterterrorism, not war, in support of Afghan and other local forces that are doing most of the fighting on the ground.

It’s been 74 years since Japan surrendered unconditionally on the battleship USS Missouri, but the United States still has 56,000 troops there. About 65,000 active duty U.S. troops are stationed in Europe (including NATO ally Turkey). We have over 25,000 troops in South Korea. And the U.S. Central Command overseas between 60,000 and 70,000 troops in the Middle East, most of whom are not engaged directly in combat.

Endendlesswars
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We can protect known killers

Amid Pres. Trump's decision to remove US troops from northern Syria and his vocal criticisms of US military presence in Middle East, the Pentagon announces the deployment of more US troops and weapons to Saudi Arabia “to assure and enhance the defense of Saudi Arabia.”

Trump said that the Kurds had gone their own whey.... that’s why he abandoned them
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This will be studied for years as an example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.

fixed it :tooth: