Were the shooters looking for or expecting bullets to come back? The Las Vegas shooter was in an upper story room of a building away from the festival. The festival itself was a gun free or weapons of any kind free zone (the shooter in the attack on the republican base ball game also was also operating outside of the kill area and was stopped by guards on the field using handguns.) Fort Hood massacre--the victims were not allowed to be armed on base. The armed guards at Douglas High and Columbine failed. Better security was required, lesson learned.

What is the evidence that gun free zones hold up? Aren't the vast majority of gun homicides a result of an armed person killing an unarmed person or persons rather than being a shoot out?

There were tons of armed police in Vegas. Arming every person at the Vegas concert wouldn't have prevented the massacre.

There were armed guards at multiple sites with school shootings and the armed guards didn't prevent the event, prevent death or limit the death.

So now we went from guards to multiple armed teachers.

Were the shooters looking for returned bullets? We can only go based on social media posts and post crime analyses It is often the case that the analysis indicates that the perpetrators plan to go down in a shootout with police. Would a shootout with teachers change that? I don't think we know.
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This is worth reading.
https://www.charlottefive.com/arming-teachers/
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The last shooting the kid dropped the gun and blended in with the students to escape.

Not exactly what I call a blaze of glory
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Reports are that a deputy showed up while the shooting was taking place and did not go in. I'm sure all the armed teachers would have taken down the gunman though.
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Do the teachers have to buy bullets just like they have to. It their own classroom supplies?
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So since crime rates aren’t zero when cops are on duty, should we abandon the police? Come on Paul, nothing is 100 percent foolproof, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea. All ideas look bad, if all you do is list the con’s and not the pro’s.

Armed guards aren’t foolproof. Reagan was shot in 1980. Does that mean the secret service doesn’t make the potus safer?

This is why nothing gets done. When either side responds to the other sides ideas, they list all the flaws of the suggestion. And none of the benefits. It’s not honest.
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On CNN, Marco Rubio was asked if he'd stop taking contributions from the NRA.

Because of course if you accept money from a group which lobbies on behalf of lawful and responsible gun owners, it is entirely your fault when a maniac shoots up a school.

Yep. Now we're THIS mindless.

Metal detectors will help


forget arming teachers but get rid of gun free zones, if a teacher wants to carry concealed and is proficient with that then let them. We can't arm kids who seem to be the ones under fire in these shootings so provide metal detectors like courthouses have and/or provide some kind of bulletproof cover to get behind.
Then work on the culture in this country that produces the unstable evil that exists.
Guns are not evil, just because they exist is not the place to lay blame and take rights away from others.

Or it could be that those constituents believe he votes with the dollars the NRA provides him in mind as opposed to their interests. That isn't what is mindless. There really is no hope.
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I think the best solution is to not sell someone a AR-15 so if a teacher with some training has a pistol he is not in a gunfight with someone who is shooting back with a weapon of war. Obviously metal detectors would help and every school that has probably been built in the last 10 years has metal doors that lock from the inside, bulletproof glass etc etc. The gym I play basketball in tonight had the signs on the inside of the doors where in an emergency they would just shift the sign from the right to the left side of the door which would be over the glass so the person on the outside cannot look in. there was just velcro strips there. Someone thought of a very cheap way to prevent a gunman from looking in.
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"I think the best solution is to not sell someone a AR-15"

It might be effective. It also might not be constitutional. It also doesn't help anyone who will get killed in Chicago.

You brought up the fact that armed guards are not guaranteed to work 100% of the time. You were responding to an argument that nobody has ever made, not in the history of the world. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

"Someone thought of a very cheap way to prevent a gunman from looking in"

And despite the fact that such methods would have been useless in FL (he pulled the fire alarms first to get everyone into the hallway), those methods can do dome good. So can armed guards.

Basketball has always been my favorite sport. I'm not very good at it, never was, but it's such a great game. Great to play, great to watch. Have a great weekend Paul.

I want to know why people think that fully automatic ar-15’s are “too scary” for civialian ownership if the argument that banning a semi automatic one is unconstitutional siting the well regulated militia argument. A militia needs military tools that are equal to the tools that our governments soldiers have access too. It does not make sense to me.
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States and share holders request their retirement or investments be divested for all sorts of reason environment human rights dictatorships ..

So a constituent asking his or her rep to stop taking money from the NRA who they see as caring only for its self and feel act irresponsibility .. isn't all that surprising, nor was his response or lack of one

Trump says violent video games 'shape' young minds

Last week, Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin, reacting to the Florida shooting, also singled out video games as an influence on the way younger people viewed the world.

But lets blame Video games who does he blame in Kentucky for the
1,330 overdose deaths in Kentucky in 2016, 31% were among people ages 35-44.

Hollywood lack of morals ?

Jim the issue is the failed logic by the Right that some how arming people is the answer .. the failed response from the armed officer blow a hole so big in that theory .

some will call him a coward , maybe he was defending Covering the escape of other students , did he know it was only 1 shooter

Even in combat you cant predict how you or your men will respond under fire

One thing on this issue I haven't heard mentioned is if you have an armed teacher(s) and there's an active shooter they have to respond to...

...

Who's taking care of that classroom of kids?

In a neutral context, I have no problem with asking politicians about the donors they take money from. In that context, the obvious implication is that if Rubio won't reject the NRA, then he has no sympathy for this kid.

Both sides will occasionally weaponize tragedy to advance an agenda. It's repulsive when either side does it. That's what CNN did, they are a complete joke.

In that particular setting, it wasn't a question, it was a set up. And Rubio (though I agree with him on most issues) is too much of an intellectual lightweight to respond appropriately.

If Rubio dodges like he did, he looks like a coward. If he explains the facts of life to a teenager who probably has 5 funerals to go to this week, he comes across as heartless. It was a set up from which Rubio had no escape, because there is no escape.

When is CNN going to have an abortion survivor on, and ask a Democrat senator when they are going to stop taking money from Planned Parenthood? Never, because CNN is openly pursuing a left-wing ideology.

I believe there have been laws restricting semi automatics and large capacity magazines that have upheld by courts. The laws say the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to semi autos. Don't know if they have been challenged. Maybe Virginia or Maryland?

A fair and pertinent question. There would need to be a protocol, and there are ways to deal with that. Have a plan where a teacher can't leave his class to engage a shooter until he knows that his kids are in another class first.

Having the military in the school, would also eliminate that concern.

CT did something pretty aggressive after Sandy Hook, right? Can you still buy an AR-15 in CT?

The courts have long held that the 2nd Amendment isn't absolute. Which is a good thing, I don't want Maxine Waters buying a nuke.

Remember that town hall CNN sponsored after the Kate Steinle killing, when grieving family members of those who had been murdered by illegal aliens were able to question Democrat lawmakers who had voted in favor of sanctuary cities and open borders?

Neither do I.

Sounds like a recipe for total chaos and inaction. The whole idea is so ridiculously stupid I can't even believe people are talking about it. Trump's remarks yesterday were laughable. I can't believe he really said you might have a teacher who had won a shooting contest so give them a bonus to carry in school.

Hell, even in FL a veteran police officer couldn't engage the shooter. You think a social studies teacher is just going to go all Rambo?

Even worse is taking the wrong actions...it's makes people think something has been done and they get complacent.

Probably because illegal immigrants commit much less violent crime than the population as a whole. It's not a top of mind issue like school shootings and mass shootings.

Because everyone is doing such a fine job raising their kids.

Interesting question. From a purely 2A perspective civilians should also have artillery and F22s. 2A as interpreted in Heller -v- DC, allows for firearms and allows for types of firearms for self defense. So based on this we should have access to full auto too. But we don't.


That school SRO failed his charges, those kids. Some of those kids acted with far higher guts and integrity than did that SRO.

A lot of different people and organizations dropped the ball on Parkland.

NUMEROUS opportunities to prevent that tragedy where there, some ignored, some not followed through.

Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't. But I can guarantee, with out a doubt, that if they weren't armed the answer is "Wouldn't"
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You’re doing what every other ideologue does. Only talking about one side of the issue. Yes, Spence, there are useless cops out there. That doesn’t mean that police don’t add value. Similarly, armed guards in school can not prevent every death. But they might well save lives.

When evaluating an idea, you consider the pros and the cons. Not just the cons. You never learned that?
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Unless an idea is 100% guaranteed to work in every conceivable situation, the thoughtless ideologues won’t consider it. And because no idea is foolproof, nothing gets done. You cannot talk to these people, it’s not possible. Liberals won’t concede that armed guards might be a godsend in some situations, conservatives won’t concede that we might be better off without bump stocks and high capacity magazines. It’s not possible to talk to these people.
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It's probably worth noting here that a big reason access to full auto firearms was restricted is because Congress at the time was concerned with their increasing use in violent crime. (and taxes)

It's also probably worth noting here that a big reason you rarely ever see full auto firearms used in violent crime today is because they're hard to get.

You're jumping to conclusions. Just because I don't weigh both sides of an argument in a post doesn't mean I don't hold them in my mind.

That being said, when the negatives outweigh the positives 10:1...

It is also worth noting that the vast significant majority of gun owners would not use them maliciously yet those same owners are being told they have blood on their hands in an Orwellian two minutes of hate (much longer actually).

There are enough bad guys (that have no intention of following the law) with fully automatic weapons - in addition to those with semi-auto - to be concerned with them.

John, there have only been 2 homicides with legally held fully automatic weapons since they were controlled, the records are not easy to access. I was wondering how many with illegally held automatics?
No being a lawyer of any type, i wonder why if the 2nd A gives you the right to keep and bear arms you cannot have bombs, cannons, fully automatic weapons, etc.

Blood on their hands is a bit of hyperbole, it may be fairer to say some gun owners are being told they don't need certain weapons or shouldn't have certain weapons.

So why don't they then? Crime with legally obtained full auto is statistically not even relevant. I haven't seen a stat on illegal full auto weapons but if it's out there it's pretty rare also.

Those were victims of this tragedy asking him that. CNN gave them a forum to do it. Not sure Faux news did the same.
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Some of the more basic readings of 2A would allow that, as well as Constitutional Carry. Nor am I a lawyer.

There are probably more illegally configured full auto than legal NFA firearms. That people willing to pay much more and jump thru more hoops can get on occasion.

They are out there but yes the numbers are low, confirmed usage is low, but they are out there.

"You're jumping to conclusions"

Nope. Responding to your constant, consistent thoughtlessness.

"when the negatives outweigh the positives 10:1"

What are the positives? What might the positives have been, if there was an armed soldier at Sandy Hook and at this school?

You see the lack of perfect guarantee, as a downside. There was no downside to having the useless cop in FL. There was no upside because he failed, but there was no downside, wither. He didn't make it worse.

Let's make it simple Spence. If I propose to put an armed soldier in the schools your kids go to, do you think your kids are more safe, or less safe?

No go onto Rachael Maddow's website and paste her answer as a response...

You are descending further and further into the intellectual abyss.

Not sure why this matters to the discussion.

But CNN doesn't let abortion survivors confront Democrats who take money from Planned Parenthood. Nor does CNN let Kate Steinle's family confront Democrats who advocate open borders and sanctuary policies. Only victims whose cause is sympathetic to liberals, get to confront their adversaries on CNN.

Nothing is going to be perfect and I don't think most people have any issue with a trained officer providing school security, but as we've seen even this has to be part of a more comprehensive plan.

I'd assume that the killer in FL very knew the school had armed security and this did nothing to deter his intentions.