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scottw 09-11-2009 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710763)
There is no way illegals with be *included* in the bill.

How about this... if there is explicit inclusion of illegals in the bill, food and beers for you and me at the Chieftain, my treat. If it's not, tuna trip on your boat?

you are right....the bill will probably only cover undocumented immigrants...no illegal aliens...

hey, maybe Acorn should take the reigns of signing everyone up for Obamacare...they are doing a bang up job with home loans and tax advice for hookers....:uhuh:

buckman 09-11-2009 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710763)
There is no way illegals with be *included* in the bill.

How about this... if there is explicit inclusion of illegals in the bill, food and beers for you and me at the Chieftain, my treat. If it's not, tuna trip on your boat?

They just won't be illegals by then or they just won't be excluded. You know how the games played JD. We heard the same thing about Mass Health. "it will only cost 100million" now it's almost a billion. "We wont cover illegals" we do. No rationing health care" it's rationed

RIJIMMY 09-11-2009 02:24 PM

spence and Johnny you are 100% correct.
there is no explicit language in the bill saying illegal immigrants will be covered.
but there is no language in welfare bills that illegals will be covered. No language in city/town laws that they can attend public schools. no explicit language in WIC or other taxpayed funded programs that they will be covered, but you know what? In many, many cases....they are! So why would any sensible person assume that they wont be covered by this?

spence 09-11-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 710752)
Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.

Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

buckman 09-11-2009 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 710782)
Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

Haven't you heard of Acorn:rotf2:

Draft bills don't mean anything. There like Obama speaches.

fishbones 09-11-2009 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 710782)
Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

Illegals most certainly can vote. I guess you haven't read about the ACORN investigations and arrests recently? Eleven ACORN staffers arrested for illegally registering voters.

Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.

scottw 09-11-2009 03:40 PM

illegal aliens are the dems most reliable voting block next to African Americans :uhuh:... no documentos necessario

they vote in exactly the same way that the get services that they aren't supposed to get...fraudulently with the help of democrats

JohnnyD 09-11-2009 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbones (Post 710797)
Illegals most certainly can vote. I guess you haven't read about the ACORN investigations and arrests recently? Eleven ACORN staffers arrested for illegally registering voters.

Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.

Being allowed to vote, and fraudulently filling out paperwork are two things. Thus why Eleven ACORN staffers were arrested.

Can, may and do are three completely separate things.

Everyone in here adheres to the "guilty by association" mentality. As such, every Democrat doesn't pay their taxes and cheats on their wife, and every Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.

scottw 09-11-2009 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710810)
Being allowed to vote, and fraudulently filling out paperwork are two things. Thus why Eleven ACORN staffers were arrested.

Can, may and do are three completely separate things.

Everyone in here adheres to the "guilty by association" mentality. As such, every Democrat doesn't pay their taxes and cheats on their wife, and every Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.

with Obama it's becoming "guilty by association....after association....after association....after association....after association.....after association...." :uhuh:

spence 09-11-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710810)
Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.

This is true...

-spence

spence 09-11-2009 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbones (Post 710797)
Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.

I already did, but as you seem to be lazy...

Quote:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf
I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

JohnnyD 09-11-2009 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 710824)
I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

Unfortunately, visiting the hospital for the sniffles can be considered an emergency.

spence 09-11-2009 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710829)
Unfortunately, visiting the hospital for the sniffles can be considered an emergency.

Blame Reagan. He signed the bill into law that requires hospitals to provide service.

-spence

scottw 09-11-2009 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 710824)
I already did, but as you seem to be lazy...



I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

And Democrats respond, “No, we didn’t. We don’t need that, because Medicare and Medicaid and such already require documentation of legal status.”

Here's a neat summary of the findings of a Medicaid audit in the state of Washington, in which seven-figure sums were improperly diverted to illegal aliens, and in which program administrators apparently fought tooth and talon to undermine the audit, going so far as to alter records. Read for yourself. Washington:

• paid $22 million to individuals who did not provide valid Social Security Numbers (SSN) or offered no SSN at all;

• paid more than $1 million to individuals claiming a deceased relative's SSN;

• provided $1.3 million in unallowable medical services to illegal aliens;

• cannot account for more than 1.4 million in pills worth in excess of $529,000; and

• did not cooperate with SAO's audit, leading to the disclaiming of the $6.1 billion Medicaid program.

Regarding the lack of cooperation extended by DSHS, SAO made the following statements throughout its audit:

• [DSHS] personnel attempted to thwart particular audit procedures by questioning our authority to either expand the scope of our audit or to obtain certain information.

• [DSHS] altered information related to sample transactions while we were attempting to complete our review.

• In some instances, we were unable to independently interview line staff without the presence of management or without management's selection of the employees to be interviewed.

• Staff members informed us that they had to obtain permission from management prior to speaking with auditors. During our review of the allowability of certain medical procedures and of procedures provided to undocumented aliens, we were never granted permission to speak with the medical consultants who had approval authority.

• The audit liaison system, as actually used by the Department, hindered our access to data and obstructed our contact with line staff. Additionally, the audit liaison system attempted to force us to rely on the Department's representations as to the existence or accuracy of evidence. In effect, the Department was attempting to perform the work of the auditor, instead of allowing the auditors to perform an independent audit and reach a valid conclusion.

• It is inappropriate for the Department to withhold information because it believes it is not relevant or significant. The auditor should be given the information requested and have an opportunity to examine it and discuss it with the Department before the auditor decides its importance.


The law empowers states to use Medicaid funds to cover “emergency” services for illegals. One of the emergency services covered is the delivery of babies. It is hard to imagine denying care to a woman being wheeled into an emergency room in labor. But, of course, providing care to women being wheeled into emergency rooms in labor was not the end of it. Bureaucracies like to grow, government bureaucracies are home to lots of Democrats, and illegal aliens provide a nice source of supplementary voters for Democrats in states such as — and let’s just pick two — California and Illinois.

So, rather than emergency deliveries being covered, pregnancy itself becomes an “emergency” condition, and Medicaid funds ended up getting used to pay for routine prenatal care and other services related to same. And then they began to be used for post-partum care, as well. The government’s own reportage documents lots of episodes in which federal funds have been used to subsidize illegals in contravention of existing statutes. On what grounds might we suppose that Obamacare would be any different? Especially if we consider that Republican efforts to help ensure that Obamacare might prove different were rejected? And might we be justified in asking the Democrats why, exactly, they voted against those measures? After all, if they are superfluous, they will have no real effect: If existing controls are sufficient, the illegals will be weeded out of the system well before they came up against these putative restrictions, no?

A GAO report finds that illegal immigrants constitute more than one-third of all Medicaid-funded pregnancies in California.

spence 09-11-2009 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY (Post 710780)
spence and Johnny you are 100% correct.
there is no explicit language in the bill saying illegal immigrants will be covered.
but there is no language in welfare bills that illegals will be covered. No language in city/town laws that they can attend public schools. no explicit language in WIC or other taxpayed funded programs that they will be covered, but you know what? In many, many cases....they are! So why would any sensible person assume that they wont be covered by this?

Are you confusing Federal and State laws?

-spence

scottw 09-11-2009 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spence (Post 710830)
Blame Reagan. He signed the bill into law that requires hospitals to provide service.

-spence

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (42 U.S.C. § 1395dd, EMTALA) is a United States Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act. It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment

JohnnyD 09-11-2009 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 710752)
Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.

I'd be curious what the actual GOP amendment's wording was. Let's not forget how ridiculous the law drafting process can be.

**This is not an attack**
For instance, it is not legal to carry a firearm on federal park lands. Why? Because the GOP had the amendment inserted into the... Fair Debt Collection Practices Act???? How is that even applicable? (Even though I'm glad they did and agree with the policy 100%)

But this happens every day. No party is innocent. Thus, I wonder what the actual wording was.

buckman 09-11-2009 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyD (Post 710853)
I'd be curious what the actual GOP amendment's wording was. Let's not forget how ridiculous the law drafting process can be.

**This is not an attack**
For instance, it is not legal to carry a firearm on federal park lands. Why? Because the GOP had the amendment inserted into the... Fair Debt Collection Practices Act???? How is that even applicable? (Even though I'm glad they did and agree with the policy 100%)

But this happens every day. No party is innocent. Thus, I wonder what the actual wording was.

I can't believe I once thought you were one of the good guys.:rotf2:

buckman 09-11-2009 05:58 PM

Read it Spence and JD. This is far from a closed issue.

Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants - Yahoo! News

spence 09-12-2009 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman (Post 710863)
Read it Spence and JD. This is far from a closed issue.

Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants - Yahoo! News

Not sure what the problem is. Obama has clearly stated he doesn't want to see this in the legislation...

But the House has a reason to put this in. If the law did require some illegals to get coverage why shouldn't they be able to buy into the gateway? They still wouldn't be receiving any Federal subsidies.

-spence

buckman 09-12-2009 09:28 AM

Thank God for Joe Wilson or we wouldn't even be talikng about it. He may have saved your kids billions.


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