[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;551281][QUOTE=wrikerjr;551168]I bet you 90% of the people on here would say that Montana and Rice is not as good as Moss and Brady.

I won't argue that....he was amazing. Set his record in a strike shortened season too....

Before we start arguing who the Greatest coach is should we define what make a Coach Great. Is it his Career Win/Loss totals? is it his Championships won? Once you define what it takes then you can say who is the Greatest

Dad fisherman,

I think it is a multiple of those that you suggested, but I like the way this thread is heading.

Some of those items will be uncalculated, like winning with less talent and various other things.

Motivation, Drafting ability, etc.

Many things that make a great coach come through all facets of the organization so it is difficult to say.

Obvious one's would inlude championships. To be a great coach you need to have won at least one championship and if you have multiple then you are doing something to be included with the greats.

I read the article, and I really don't need you to tell me what to read again and again if you can't understand the concept that the 2007 sos is based on your opponents win/loss percentage in 2007 and not 2006. I can't help you The sos you are looking at is old and is used to create the schedule for 2007 and the draft for last year. when was that article April??? Enough said

if you still don't understand let me break it down. The problem is the sos for this year and this years draft is based on the winning percentage of your opponents in this year 2007, not the 2007 sos. The fact that a team plays Chicago was great last year and sucked this year will not help your SOS when its looked at after the season is over.

Pats do not have a .535 they have a .473. My friend that pat's did not have the 3rd hardest sos in 2008 its impossible in their divisions. I was correcting someone's comments, its qa mute point because they don't make there schedule. The major point is that it is well above Miami's sos when they were perfect.

The simple fact is that if the Patriots win the super bowl, they beat the best of the best, that is what the playoff does. That accomplishment will be up there with one of the greatest feats ever in sports, definetly the best football feat ever.

This thread has gotten way off line, people said that BB is the greatest and that is what I debated. people are saying i keep saying no dynasty and sos is weak. I didn't say that I am just correcting some of you.

Bottom line if you go undefeated in regular and post season no one can ever say a word, including myself and then I would have to give BB the nod over Knowles/Lombardi/Gibbs/Landry as the greatest greatest coaches ever.

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;551286][QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;551281]
I'll take that bet

Jerry Rice was the best reciever

Brady is making a great case for himself to pass Montana and I believe that he will soon enough.

There can be no denying that after this season once the Pats win their 4th superbowl, that it will be a fact that they are they greatest team ever :D

Can't argue that. No way no how

I will say Brady is better than Montana without hesitation! Give Moss a few more seasons catching Brady and they will be the best tandem ever...better than Montana and Rice!

Right now...not yet!

Rice was alot different receiver than Moss though......his yards after the catch were awesome! He was always on the fly when Montana hit him! Rice is one of my all-time favorites!

You lost your 1st rounder this year. Your 7th round pick is from San Francisco. I am not going to teach you about the draft, you will have to look it up but SOS weighs in when your tied and its the 2008 sos. The p[atriots did not have the 3rd toughest schedule in the nfl my friend is all i am saying.

I will have to admit that Brady is up there with Montana that is undeniable. with under two minutes to go in a superbowl I would take Montana if you needed a touchdown

Strike King, are you going to plugfest?

No problem on the refresher anytime. I don't know where the link is look it up or do a search on sos in nfl and don't look at last year. FYI if the article is from April it is old!!!

Actually, i did try looking it up and i couldn't find it either. All I could find is the 2007 from the start of the year.

A lot of the arguing would probaly stop if you posted where you got your info from...then everyone would read it and we could move on to something else in the debate.

Outside NE it seems like the more knowlegdable football fans are slowly giving the Pats their props, what choice do they have at this point. Belicheck has won with nobodies and stars, beside going 19-0 what more can he do. I can see why its tuff to measure greatness in the same way it hard to measure jealousy

wow explaining my tone, thanks i appreciate it!!!:hee:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft

strength of schedule is included in here.

No, I'm looking at the NFL playoff picture that starts this weekend.

6 teams from each conference qualify.

Of the 5 other AFC teams--the Pats beat 3--who just happen to be all 3 of the other divisional winners.

Of the NFC teams, the Pats also beat 3--including the team with the best record in the NFC, on their field, by 3 touchdowns.

Every NFC team on their schedule had at least a .500 record.

They also beat a 10-6 AFC team that didn't make the playoffs.

The NFL schedule requires you to play a home and home series against every other team in your division. It isn't the Pats' fault that the Bills had a mediocre year, and that the Jets and Dolphins were horrendous.

Playing and beating 6 of the other 11 playoff qualifiers--including two 13-3 teams on the road--kind of trumps playing 6 games against your own divisional cupcakes. And lest anyone forget, both of those 13-3 teams were undefeated when the Pats played them.

This isn't college ball where Ohio State can go out and schedule Bowling Green for 4 straight years. You get handed a schedule by the league, and you play it.

In 1972, Miami beat the teams the schedule makers put in front of them. They're knocked for it today, but it was what they had in front of them. They still beat two good teams in the AFC playoffs and the NFC champion in the Super Bowl.

Bill Belichick = Greatest football coach ever! period :jump:

I agree 100% I agree that you beat the premier teams in the league, I have never agrued any of that or said anyhting about that. I have never said anythin against that, going back in the thread someone said they had the 3rd toughest sos and they were wrong they are looking at the old sos that the league uses to determine the schedules.

I agree 100% you don't make the schedule and you can't control who you play you just go out and win.

I am very willing to say that if NE wins the superbowl then they are the best team ever assembled but until then they will have to win the superbowl.

everyone seems to think I said that NE's accomplishment is diminished by their SOS. That is not true and I never said.:bsod:

I do think if NE does not win the superbowl the 16-0 season is heavily diminished :think:and I do not believe that BB is the greatest coach ever, i believe he is top 5 but not the greatest ever.:uhoh:

with that said it should be a great playoff and I fully expect after every NE win pm's from people telling me how wrong I am.

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5? :hee:

I think you have to give serious consideration to Bill Walsh.

If you go back to the 60, and even into the mid 70s, head coaches didn't have the army of assistants that they do nowadays. Much of game planning, and especially the in-game adjustments, was the head coach's job. Guys like Hank Stram and Sid Gilman were tremendous at both jobs, and true innovators.

Bill Walsh would be in my top 5......Chuck Knoll, Lombardi, Landry, and.......Bill Belichik!

1. Paul Brown
2. Chuck Noll (tie with lombardi)
2. Vince Lombardi (tie with lombardi)
4. Bill Belichick
5. Tom Landry

I would love to put Madden on the list but I just can't do it.

Go ahead and pick it apart as I know everyone will!!!

lets hear everyone else's list

Can you please rank them, a lot of people here are saying that Bill Belichick is the best ever. do you agree???

Tough to pick a top 5 for sure....I was waffling over Joe Gibbs....could have easily put him in there!

Madden???? Not even on the radar! What are his credentials.....1 Superbowl and what else? Did he even coach that long??

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

madden coaches less than 10 years and had 1 superbowl and the greatest winning percentage of coaches ever and the greatest winning percentage for a decade period.

I can't get the image of Madden out of my head where in the Superbowl (forget which it was) the Pats could have sat on the ball and gone into overtime and taken their chances or played for the win, which they did and won and Madden thought their decision was a poor one.....until they won! Was it the St. Louis game?? I forget?

where is brown. that my friend is a travesty 7 championships, most of the people on your list got their start with brown and have aknowledged what he has done for the game and coaching. he changed the game as we know it today. Not having him on your list highly devalues your list. I don't even know why I have to defend him.

yes the rams game the 1st of their 3 titles.

Quickest and youngest coach to get 100 wins also!

Gee Larry
How about giving some credit when it's due and not being such a homer!!!
Yes he only coached for 10 years but he stopped because of health reason and fear of flying !
10 years-7 trips to the afc championship game and either having to play the Steelers or Miami and yes 1 super bowl win.
Some experts even thought he was good enough to put him in the hall of fame !
And 90% of all other coaches would have played it safe and sat on it and played for overtime!

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

So how many wins would this Pats team have against that 70s Steelers team ???
Also, I don't think Knoll was that great of a coach to be on a list.
That defense made him look great !

I'd lose Landry and put Gibbs in...Guy won 3 SB with 3 different QB's....not to shabby

I don't buy into that "what if" line of argument! This team, in their time in their era are doing things that are unrivaled! Yes....thats right! UNRIVALED! That "GREAT" Pittsburg team did not have this long of a run and it shows no sign of ending! By the time the Pats are done re-writing the record books it might be 5 years from now or longer!

"What if the Pats played the dynasty 49'ers?".....:bc:....."What if the Pats played the Steeler dynasty?"....:bc:......I will take my chances with this Pats team against any team you want to name.......since it can't be done its kind of a stupid argument! Don't you think?? I do!

To clarify my feelings on the "What If" arguments......I think players from yesterday were alot tougher than any of todays players! Take the 2007 Red Sox......do I think they could beat the 1961 Yankees???!!!! Not in a million years!!! Those players from years ago ate nails and breathed fire......they were real, hard working, hard playing athletes who had to kill themselves to retain their jobs......not like todays whining, spoiled breed of athlete! Players today are what we have and what we have made them.....society has changed and so have the times!

I will say this!
I didn't think Tom Brady was that talented or great early in his career,
But I love how he has made himself great through HARD WORK, and the fact that he takes less money for the good of the team so they can spend it on other players that he need so he can be great!
Is refreshing in this day of SPOILED MILLIONAIRES!

I agree Ron! Players like Brady are few and far between!

Madden won one buddy so how does it hurt him. he is a great coach not on the top 5 but definetly top 10. he also happened to coach against a dynasty that many believe could beat your dynasty, the 70 steelers.

No one can say definetly who would win, because the game is much different now then just 10 years ago nevermind the 70s. 4 championships in 6 years my friend is something of a massive accomplishment. Your NE patriots would have to win back to back again to get 4 in 6. what do you think the odds of that are???