If the playing field was level, Israel would be wiped off the face of the map.

And how exactly am I on the wrong side of this issue? Simply because I put the welfare of 300 million americans ahead of 6 million Israelis?

I'd like you to let me know what side of this issue I'm on, because I don't think you really have a clue :huh: :wave:

-spence

You seem to be blaming Isreal for everything and not putting any blame on the Palestinian thugs who start most of this, Isreal has every right to bomb the %$%$%$%$ out of Hamas and Hezballah anytime one of the groups fire rockets and kill Isreali children. I cant beleieve you are on the side of the Palestinians on this issue, You are so on the wrong side. Suporting the Palestinians and thier tacics is not much differerent than showing support for Al Qeada. They are pretty much the same in the tacics they use. This my friend, is why you are on the wrong side of this conflict. All you seem to do is rip Isreal and attempt to justfy the "Palestinian cause" Whatever the hell the damn cause is anyway.

Props to Isreal for taking action again Lebanon, if Hezbalah is storing arms and organizing murder in Isreal, i say good for Isreal for protecting its people. But i know you have a problem with Isreal going on the offesive and protecing its citizens from being slaughtered, dont you Spence?

Isreal has the right to take action, just like the US had the right to take action after our people were slaughterd on 9/11. Only in Isreal, they see mini 9/11's on a daily basis, rocket attacks, suicide bombings etc.

Skippy, your mind is in a very small box indeed :bo:

And please don't pretend to understand what my position is, because you...like Uffah don't get it.

-spence

Looks like we have an in house war again
 

Spence is a well read diplomat and a decent guy...give him a break :uhuh:

I never said who I thought was right or wrong...it cannot be that simple.

What I have said before and am saying now is that this recent conflagration, only one of many over numerous years, could become a catalyst for a World War of an even more pronounced and elevated stature then the one we have been living already for some years.

Its scary really.

Let us try to get along if you will....:devil2:

Awwww shucks :blush:

Agreed. It is very complicated and there's been bad behavior on both sides...that's not a statement of parity mind you.
It's becoming more clear what Israel intends here, to drive a wedge between the various Palestenian factions. It certainly is risky though...

I think a key factor is that a broader war really doesn't benefit anyone in this situation. Israel looks to be after some incremental gain that may help stabalize the Palestenian government...if it doesn't destroy it in the process.

It's like chemotherapy :hee:

-spence

This is a very interesting statement, I can't believe Skippy is that stupid.

Skippy, could you please elaborate?

-spence

Sure you got the right word there Spence? If I'm not mistaken they recently used their franchise to elect a Hezbolla government.

Hamas
but its all the same.

uh hem
 

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/...ader.world.gif
Israel bombards Beirut amid spiraling attacks




Thursday, July 13, 2006; Posted: 12:04 p.m. EDT (16:04 GMT)

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BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Israel's warplanes bombed Beirut's international airport and its navy blockaded Lebanon's ports in a sharp escalation of a military campaign Thursday.



Hezbollah guerrillas fired scores of rockets from Lebanon into northern Israel in the most intense bombardment in years.
Some 45 people and two soldiers have been killed inside Lebanon since Wednesday, the country's health ministry said, while the rocket attacks killed at least one woman in Israel.
Beirut's Rafik Hariri International Airport was forced to close after Israeli fighter jets hit all three of its runways, leaving huge craters that made them unusable.
Two other Lebanese airports were attacked Thursday morning, the Israel Defense Forces said.
The IDF gave no details, but Lebanese army sources said that the Rayak Air Base in the Bekaa Valley near the Syrian border had been hit as well as a small military airport in Qulayaat in northern Lebanon.
Israel said it targeted the international airport in the capital's suburbs because it was a transfer point for weapons and supplies to Hezbollah, the militant group that captured two Israeli soldiers and killed eight others in raids this week.
Lebanese Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat called the airport strikes a "general act of war," saying they had nothing to do with Hezbollah but were instead an attack against the country's "economic interests," especially its tourism industry. All Beirut-bound flights are having to be diverted.
Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi called for a comprehensive cease-fire, saying the Lebanese government had nothing to do with the Hezbollah attacks.
After Israel's airport strike, planes began dropping leaflets warning residents of an impending attack on an area of southern Beirut where Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah is believed to live. (Watch initial reports on the runway bombings -- 6:00)
If such a strike happened, Hezbollah said it would attack the northern Israeli city of Haifa, where 300,000 people live.
The U.S. Navy moved a small military tug out of Haifa after the threat.
Israel: 'We mean business'

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday he fears a "regional war is mounting" with Israel's military campaigns in Lebanon and Gaza, where forces were deployed after last month's capture of an Israeli soldier.
"This is not our interest and will not bring peace and stability to the region," Abbas said, referring to "this [Israeli] aggression."
President Bush said all countries had a right to defend themselves butwarned Israel to take care not to "weaken" Lebanon's government.
Bush also stressed during a visit to Germany that Syria "needs to be held to account."
Hezbollah enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran and is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon's government.
Israeli Security Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog said: "We are taking strong measures so that it will be clear to the Lebanese people and government ... that we mean business."
The United Nations will send a team to the Middle East to urge both sides to use restraint, a spokesman for Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Thursday.
Captives named

Israeli airstrikes were aimed at targets used by Hezbollah for storing weapons, the IDF said.
Warplanes also hit al-Manar television station because Hezbollah uses it to incite and recruit activists, the IDF said. A broadcast tower was destroyed and three people injured, but the station was able to continue broadcasting, al-Manar editor Ibrahim Moussawi said.
Israel's Cabinet authorized a "severe and harsh" response to the abduction of the two soldiers, named Thursday as Ehud Goldvasser, 31, from Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, from the Haifa suburb of Kiryat Motzkin.
Hezbollah called for a prisoner exchange but, as in Gaza, Israel has rejected the call.
Hezbollah chief Nasrallah told reporters that seizing the soldiers was "our natural, only and logical right" to win freedom for Hezbollah prisoners held by Israel.
Nasrallah said the two soldiers had been taken to a place "far, far away" and that an Israeli military campaign would not win their release.
More than 70 Katyusha rockets have hit Israel in the past 24 hours, the IDF said.
Missiles critically injured one person and hurt at least 10 others in Safed, about 13 miles (20 kilometers) from the Lebanese border, which local officials said not been hit by Hezbollah rockets since 1972. (Watch the rocket's explosion and town chaos -- 1:45)
Also in northern Israel, a woman was killed and 15 people hurt in a rocket attack in Nahariya, and at least 38 people were injured when rockets hit the Arab village of Carmiel, Israeli ambulance services said.
CNN's Barbara Starr and John Vause and journalist Anthony Mills in Beirut contributed to this report.

Yes, it's the right word...the elections were only recently, hence the conditional "for the most part".

And I believe there were some Hizbolla members elected along with Hamas, just not as many.

The key of course is that the people are looking for stability. I don't believe they elected Hamas as an endorsement of terrorisim, but rather Hamas was simply less corrupt than the PLO! The non-militant wings of these parties are a major provider of basic services to many people over there...

This isn't a good vs evil debate as much as some would like you to believe...fundamentally it's about humans dealing with reality, which is quite nuanced anyway you slice it. A child blown up by a homicide bomber, or an errant IDF strike doesn't really care what was motivating the violence.

-spence

lets send Jimmy Carter over there, I bet he can use some of those great diplomacy skills he used to free the US hostages from Iran to free the Israeli hostages......oh wait a minute....

Well, what goes around comes around...those hostages might have never been taken had the US not meddeled so much in the Iranian government :heybaby:

-spence

of course, we deserved it! I wonder how many of you could have predicted Spence's response?:bl:

I'm waiting for the "Its Bush's fault" response next. Its so predictable.

[QUOTE=Skitterpop]Spence is a well read diplomat and a decent guy...give him a break :uhuh: QUOTE]

So i cant challenge his views because he's a "decent guy"? Get real and learn how to debate. Just because someones a solid gut doesnt mean i cant challenge his views.

I'm sure Jimmy Carter's a pretty good guy too, but he's a nut when it comes to his political views!

Ok
 

Can you read Skip?

Not placing blame, just trying to remain objective. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from history, and to ignore the role that our influence has had on many global events doesn't bode well for the future.

Our leaders have done a number of bad things thinking they were in the public interest at the time, some of them may have been worth it...and some not. This isn't a liberal notion, it's just reality.

-spence

Question "Do you believe in God?" Answer "No", bang your dead.

Question "Do you believe in God?" Answer "yes", Question, "Do you believe in my God?" Answer "No", bang your dead. George Carlin

Religion, one of the best and worst things ever to be. Causes more death, war, turmoil than any other one single cause. Besides oil of course.

Yes, the world is holdin on by a thread and total chaos is only a breath away. We are in tow many places where we don't belong, fighting to "right" causes that have been and will be around for the next thousand years. We know nothing of tribal and factional infighting and should not meddle in something that will never cease to be.

10% of Salvadoran nationals live and work in the US, most illegally.
20% of Mexican nationals live and work here also, along with like and higher percentages of Brazilians, Guatemalans etc. 80% of those only are here for the money and could care less about our country itself. They send thier money home, spend little here and when they die they are sent home to be buried. Time to become a more insular country and stop being the worlds top cop, administer of culture, political ideologies and religion.

Yes the world is about to go boom, war is good for the economy you know, and when it's all over and the world scene is a different place we will lick our wounds and somehow come to the realization that we were wrong and eventually tee shirts, hats, sneakers, electronics and just about everything else will carry a label made in Iran, made in Iraq made in Syria just like now going to Old Navy and buying shirts made in Viet Nam.

Carry on.

the two sides have been fighting since before the birth of Christ.
however...the UN and the EU almost always lay the blame for these things right in the lap of Isreal. its like being an older brother and having a little brother who is always causing trouble. you smack the kid down when he's doing something wrong and mom and dad tell you that its your fault for hitting him. puhlease...the terrorist groups are enabled by the left and their sympathic view points towards them, and their blantent hatred for Isreal.

in case anyone hasn't noticed, Europe is a pretty anti-semetic place these days.

Skippy, you're not really challenging my views...but rather spitting up
ad hominem fragments and regurgitated partisan whackery.

-spence

Which doesn't exactly explain why the vast majority of Jews traditionally vote Democratic now does it?

-spence

A refreshing voice of reason :rtfm:

:)

-spence

Is
 

Rockhoppingmike using different sign on names :scream:

You somehow think condemning Miltary action against Terrorists (which is exactly what Israel is doing) is in anyway aiding the welfare of 300 million American?

Depends...If the Israeli actions are more punitive in nature or are disproportionate then they certainly could do more harm to the fragile situation in the reigon, which would negatively impact Americans...

Certianly our defense of some Israeli behavior over the years has dramatically fueled anti-US tension and contributed largely to 9/11. At the time some of these policy decisions may have looked to be beneficial, but with hindsight there has been a cost.

In the context of current events, do we learn from history or continue to potentially repeat the same mistakes?

-spence

jesus was jewish
satan was a palestinian


how about them Irish ?

must be St Patrick who was actually Italian

retribution!
 

hmm...seems i said something to this effect a little earlier today...

Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind :hs:

-spence

Spence:

!!

:bshake: :bshake: :bshake:

-spence

Spence:

Yep those hostages deserved it alright.

Here ya go...

http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

-spence

Thanks for that but this seems more relevant to your post


http://blameamerica.com/

This is the lamest segue into your ultimate agenda you have ever come up with. Although it took longer than it ususally does, your undying blind hatred for the man can never really be contained. I knew it would only be another post or two until you were back in lockstep with the "party."




"""[QUOTE=spence]Not really, the resolution is saying that Israel's actions are potentially reckless and may cause unecessary instability...not that they are entirely to blame for the situation.

Regardless, the US needs to step in here and show some leadership. Freaking planet is going to hell in a handbasket and Bush is running blind :hs: """




lol...talk about regurgitated partisan whackery.:bl2:

The beauty of this situation is the liberals are attempting to weigh in on a subject that they can't understand at home in the states. The power of religion. Watching liberals trying understand religion, faith, fanaticism is like watching a Greek tragedy. Religion is their party's biggest tragic flaw on the homefront. Its the reason they lost the last two elections and will lose the next one as well. But there they are everyday espousing their knowledge about religious conflicts that have been around since the begining of time.

Spence, isnt that what you constantly refer to as US "meddling"?

Souinds like ad hominem fragments and regurgitated partisan whackery.

Most of this thread is not discussion but oneupmanship and personal attacks....myself included :smokin:


I have never wondered why different countries with different religions or politics could`nt get along....seeing how most families cannot attain a sensible peace on such a lesser scale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If this conflict in the Middle East gets to where Iran and Syria are actively involved that will be a hurricane of destruction.

Oh yes, because I'm objective I must hate America...how nice :rolleyes:

Typically I only assign infallibility to gods and kings, but if you think you're deserving then so be it.

-spence