Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1223341)

JUST imagine if trump were still president, actually you don’t have to, just read his statements
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Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1223345)

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1223341)

The truth is Biden has made hard intelligence public, transparently - and it turned out true, it has boxed Putin in, he’s rallied nato and the world community and handled this crisis with a sure even hand.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1223341)

JUST imagine if trump were still president, actually you don’t have to, just read his statements
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Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1223339)

Make not mistake - we are likely as close to all out nuclear war as we have been since Cuba. Putin is a madman.




Yep. How much have you been watching what is happening there? Seems to me the best and brightest RUS forces have not been as much in contact as expected. Some of the forces used are the Rosgardia, loosely akin, but not as capable / competent as our National Guard units.

The fact that Ukraine still has active AAD and Air Forces not yet 72 hours in is impressive. Block to block fighting in Kyiv might favor the Ukranians.

Ukraine has held Cherniv, Kharkiv, Sumy, Mariupol, the rough line of Kuhansk Donetsk. Yesterday they staged a deep strike to a couple airfields close to Kyiv, initially held those fields but were beaten back enough that the follow on Ilyushins carrying reinforcements were reportedly turned around.

Also rumors of two RUAF Ilyushins shot down tonight IAO Kyiv carrying landing forces with probably a 150-200 troops each.

They have a lot of issues with RUS forces in outskirts of Kyiv as well as a 100-120K breakout from Crimea. Some RUS SF have reportedly shed their RUS uniforms and donned UA uniforms.

Fustercluck

Some estimates of over 3000 Russian casualties so far.

Fighting in Kyiv relatively close to Maidan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7FuPINDjA

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1223358)

I saw those troop carries being shot down man pads? I didn’t think we gave them any stingers but did just read Poland sent some Grom shoulder-fired heat-seeking surface-to-air missiles, and it look like they are using them on high casualties targets …with success

The Ukraine’s know their land not sure if they ever constructed many obstacles or mined road ways


Sending Conscripting troops with less than a year experience to fight a 3 front war , looks like Russians haven’t learned from WW2 and their send everyone approach
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Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1223363)

We sent planeloads of Stingers and additional planeloads of Javelins. Baltic states and several former WPact, (CZ, PO, RO, BU) sent hundreds of stingers, and late RUS MANPADS.

The RUS gains, other than in the south, are really not inspiring confidence.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1223366)

I figure the Javelins but haven't heard of their use. Because I am sure we want to know their effectiveness on New Russian Armor
including AT4s I fired a few hard to hit at distance


I have no expectations of a Ukraine Military victory .. but seems they are winning the public relation war .. Swinging many to support more equipment then a few days ago

Its going to get uglier in the coming days for both sides

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223372)

oh boy....

A new Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey released Friday found that 62 percent of those polled believed Putin would not be moving against Ukraine if Trump had been president.

When looking strictly at the answers of Democrats and Republicans, 85 percent of Republicans and 38 percent of Democrats answered this way. . . . A majority of Americans polled — 59 percent — also said they believed that the Russian president moved on Ukraine because Putin saw weakness in President Biden.

Thirty-eight percent of Democrats think Trump would have prevented this. After six full years of blanket press coverage calling Trump a pawn of Putin.

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman (Post 1223373)

..

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223372)

oh boy....

A new Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey released Friday found that 62 percent of those polled believed Putin would not be moving against Ukraine if Trump had been president.

When looking strictly at the answers of Democrats and Republicans, 85 percent of Republicans and 38 percent of Democrats answered this way. . . . A majority of Americans polled — 59 percent — also said they believed that the Russian president moved on Ukraine because Putin saw weakness in President Biden.

Thirty-eight percent of Democrats think Trump would have prevented this. After six full years of blanket press coverage calling Trump a pawn of Putin.

Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1223378)

That same 62% think he won the election or the election was rigged

Of course Putin wouldn’t have invaded because Trump would have given Putin what he wanted no nato in Ukraine and more us Troops removed from Europe .

Not because he’s a strong leader as you cult members suggest

When looking strictly at the answers of Democrats and Republicans, 85 percent of Republicans and 38 percent of Democrats answered this way.

Who would have guessed

However, 38 percent of all Americans polled believed that Putin would have invaded Ukraine even if Trump had been president


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Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1223371)

Yes. Embarrassment for Putin is going to change things not in a good way.

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1223383)

I think it could go way beyond embarrassment. If there’s no clear path out through Ukraine he could drag other countries into this mess or just wage war on the West in general. Start stockpiling canned tuna.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1223385)

he threatened finland and sweden not to join NATO. If Putin had a brain, i think it’s broke.

it’s hard to believe we’re actually talking about an unprovoked invasion.

I’d love to see Putin answer for this someday.
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223386)

it's not the first time in history...we just like to act as though it can't happen....

Originally Posted by Jim in CT (Post 1223387)

but it’s the first time in a loooong time. you’re right, dangerous to get complacent.
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Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223388)

depends on your definition of long :D

some would include this "And then there was George W. Bush, who unnecessarily invaded Saddam’s Iraq—which had been severely weakened by Bush Sr.’s pounding of it a decade before—on a bunch of trumped up-accusations."

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223388)

depends on your definition of long :D

some would include this "And then there was George W. Bush, who unnecessarily invaded Saddam’s Iraq—which had been severely weakened by Bush Sr.’s pounding of it a decade before—on a bunch of trumped up-accusations."

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1223390)

As much as the Iraq war was a tragic blunder all around at least you could argue we were up against an incredibly corrupt authoritarian regime. In Ukraine we’re talking about a mostly peaceful democracy.

Originally Posted by Pete F. (Post 1223376)

Ukraine claims it's killed almost 3,000 Russian soldiers in the first 36 hours of the invasion.

As ever, you have to take these things with a grain of salt, but anything even remotely close to that number would be stunning – the US lost 4,431 in two decades in Iraq
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Originally Posted by wdmso (Post 1223381)

thermobaric rockets systems seen on their way

Originally Posted by spence (Post 1223383)

I think it could go way beyond embarrassment. If there’s no clear path out through Ukraine he could drag other countries into this mess or just wage war on the West in general. Start stockpiling canned tuna.

Originally Posted by JohnR (Post 1223394)

I am seeing enough that convinces me that number might be close to accurate. Ukraine's losses are also much higher than reported, but they are holding so far. Ballsy AF.

Conscripted troops with less training contribute to early losses

They've been doing a lot of Grads in different places but the Thermobaric weapons are an entire different level of bad.

Horrible weapon system. Horrible way to die



True. Having the electricity off for a long time is not out of the question (cyber or worse) and we are always about 9 meals away from absolute mayhem.

Originally Posted by scottw (Post 1223395)

good job....


During the phase of Russia’s troop buildup that began last fall, the White House presented evidence of Russia’s activities surrounding Ukraine to Qin Gang, China’s ambassador to the U.S., according to the New York Times. Instead of pressuring Moscow to back down, the Chinese government shared that intelligence with the Kremlin.

Originally Posted by nightfighter (Post 1223396)

Choose your level of preparation...
I think German Chancellor is taking the lead here for a European led coalition. Might be NATO, but could involve non NATO countries as well. He had Polish PM and head of Lithuania in Berlin today. It would be best IMO if this were not US led response. American participation, in a significant way, but not at the head of the coalition.